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Defensive Scoring.

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Defensive Scoring.

Postby matmat » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:29 pm

Is there anyone who gets points for defenses forcing 3 and outs?
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Postby Arlo » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:45 am

Sounds like crickets so far...

I agree that it's an interesting stat to use, though. ;-D
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Postby Mr.Joshua » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:02 am

I never heard about it, I don't like it and thats all I have to say about that
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Postby matmat » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:53 pm

fine... I'll answer myself to elicit some thoughts.

As far as I am concerned, the defence has two principal jobs on the football field:
1) minimize opponent's points
2) get the offence on the field ASAP.

most leagues reward keeping points against down, that takes care of (1).

most leagues reward turnovers, but if a defence forces a punt, it's done its job, yet a lot of leagues ignore this. Some take care of this by looking at yards against, but I don't think that is as good a measure. I think a punt forced should be worth as much as a half or two thirds of a turnover, after all -- the ball passes to the offence, but with slightly weaker field position than a pick or a fumble.
Last edited by matmat on Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby husker_fanatic » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:00 pm

crazy boy...
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Postby Battlecreek Dragon » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:16 pm

If that is the case, should a DEF really get credit for an intentional safety taken by the offense?

Should DEF/ST get points for a yardage shift in field position resulting from a fabulous punt, or punts inside the 10? Negative points for bad punts?

Should a DEF be penalized the same for giving up a TD after a 7 yard punt out of the endzone vs an 80 yard drive?

So many questions.......
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Postby matmat » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:46 pm

Battlecreek Dragon wrote:If that is the case, should a DEF really get credit for an intentional safety taken by the offense?


Should DEF/ST get points for a yardage shift in field position resulting from a fabulous punt, or punts inside the 10? Negative points for bad punts?

Should a DEF be penalized the same for giving up a TD after a 7 yard punt out of the endzone vs an 80 yard drive?

So many questions.......


lol. yes. it does raise many questions.but we credit sacks, even though, unless there is a fumble, there is no immediate benefit for the team, except for altering field position.

1) intentional safeties. well. what is the most common reason for an int. safety? is it to get better field position to avoid losing 7 points as opposed to 2? I don't quite know the scenarios enough to answer that.

2) punt teams are parts of ST/D. If a team gets off a great punt, that gives the defence a longer field to do something over (pick, fumble, force a punt, etc.) if they get off a lousy one, there is less of a chance of this happening. No need to reward punts extra.

3) The answer to the last question is, probably. A way to solve this might actually to only penalize defences for scoring drives., for example, if you give up 7 yds and a touch, count that as, say, 67 'points'... count an 80 yd td as, 140 'points' and then have FP awarded (or subtracted) based on the total of these 'points' given up. Field goals would work nicely here too, in a sense. If you let the offence get about 10 yards and kick a FG, that's 40 'points' if you let them walk down the field, say, 80 yards, then you've given up 110 'points'.

hope that's clear :)
I understand that this would be hard to implement, but shouldn't really take that long for a devoted league :) ;-D
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Postby Battlecreek Dragon » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:10 pm

2) punt teams are parts of ST/D. If a team gets off a great punt, that gives the defence a longer field to do something over (pick, fumble, force a punt, etc.) if they get off a lousy one, there is less of a chance of this happening. No need to reward punts extra.


Why not? Why reward a D/ST more for holding a team to 3 and out vs a D/ST that gets great punts and coverage but gives up a little yardage to the opposing offense here and there. Both D/ST's are equally capable of shifting field position. They just do it differently.

Seriously though.....

I didn't really expect an answer to my questions.

I guess my point is that you can over analyze things and award points to so many different events that trying to make decisions on draft day, or on the WW week to week, becomes too complicated.

I think such arrangements would be fine in a league full of sophisticated and devoted FF owners. But in the average league, if you make it too complicated you will discourage participation because it is just too darn hard to figure out what to do. Either that or people get tired of the amount of time it takes each week and burn out when their team is 5-5 and the playoffs start looking doubtful.
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Postby matmat » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:12 pm

Battlecreek Dragon wrote:
I think such arrangements would be fine in a league full of sophisticated and devoted FF owners. But in the average league, if you make it too complicated you will discourage participation because it is just too darn hard to figure out what to do. Either that or people get tired of the amount of time it takes each week and burn out when their team is 5-5 and the playoffs start looking doubtful.


yah

I know you didn't expect answers ;)

I would actually like to see punts forced as a category in a lot of leagues. More D points :)
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Postby Battlecreek Dragon » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:16 pm

I for one don't like giving D/ST points for kickoff yardage.

Miami got shelled the other night and still got 6 D/ST points in my league because of all of the kickoff return yardage after each NYJ score. That just doesn't seem right to me.
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