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Shakespeare

Postby goleafsgo96 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:37 pm

Not sure if this debate has ever taken place, but my class is talking about it and i thought id try and get a reaction from you guys.

Did Shakespeare ever exist?

I had to take "no" side of this debate, and at first i figured some nut who was jealous started the rumour that he didnt exist. Then, after doing alot of research, i think ive been convinced he was not a real person. Remember, at this time in England, writers who wrote something that royalty did not improve of were thrown in jail and sometimes killed. So many believe some other write (Francis Bacon for example) wrote them and gave this name to remain anonymous. Or maybe it was different writers, who all chose to credit this Shakespeare character with their work. couple other points:

1- shakespeares parents were poor and illiterate.

2- shakespeare never had the money to go to school, and there are no records of him ever going to school

3- it is said he could speak 5 languages, but there are no records of him ever leaving the country, let alone take the time to learn all these languages

4- Other than these plays, no one had ANYTHING that was written by him personally. I mean letters, remember at this time letters were very common, people were frequently sending letters to friends, youd think he would have written someone being the great writer he was.

Course i dont know for sure, i wanted to see what others thought. Maybe someone here as that all important piece of proof everyone is looking for to solve this madness... 8-o
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Postby Diablo13 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:01 pm

He existed.

In fact, I've been in his house as well as Ann Hathaway's house. Shakespere's house is a very small two story in Stratford Upon Avon near Warwick castle. It has since been turned into a tourist attraction. I went through it when I was stationed in Lakenheath back in 99'. I also got to tour Ann Hathaway's cottage in nearby Warwickshire.
Now, I understand that, just because I went through their house does not necessarily mean that he existed.
But!
I did also see his tomb which is located in in a cathedral about 30 minutes north of Stratford Upon Avon. If I could figure out how to scan some pics I would be happy to show you. Of Course, I only have pics of both houses and some outside pics of the cathedral where he is entombed. Cameras are strictly forbidded inside.

That is a close as I can get to explaining that he existed. If he did not, some people went to great lengths to make everybody else think that he did.
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Postby portisfan24 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:05 pm

I thought the debate was over whether he wrote his plays or not. Im pretty sure he existed.
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Postby goleafsgo96 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:07 pm

I believe the argument is that there WAS a William Shakespeare, he just wasnt the writer. We (meaning non beleivers, though im not quite sure) know there was someone with this name, and yes he has a house and yes he has a tomb, but this guys parents were also illiterate, and this guy never went to school. Whered he get these skills from? Just some food for thought
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Postby goleafsgo96 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:09 pm

portisfan24 wrote:I thought the debate was over whether he wrote his plays or not. Im pretty sure he existed.


yea this is what i meant... here it comes...


Did William Shakespeare actually write the plays that he is given credit for?
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Postby Diablo13 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:31 pm

goleafsgo96 wrote:
portisfan24 wrote:I thought the debate was over whether he wrote his plays or not. Im pretty sure he existed.


yea this is what i meant... here it comes...


Did William Shakespeare actually write the plays that he is given credit for?


Oops!
sorry, I misunderstood the question.

I cannot answer whether he did or did not actually write the stuff. But I do know that I had to research Macbeth in one of my lower division courses for my AA. Humanities I think. And at that point I was wishing Shakespere never existed...lol!
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Postby Diablo13 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:46 pm

Delia Bacon offered a compelling argument that Sir Francis Bacon was the principal author of the writings of William Shakespeare, an allegation not as ludicrous as it sounds. Ample evidence supports this contention and believers included Mark Twain, Walt Whitman, Henry James, Sigmund Freud, and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.


http://shop.alienzoo.com/conspiracytheory/shakespeareanconspiracy.html

Check this out man,
I was just cruising around some conspiracy theory sites and stumbled across this one. You may have seen it. This is a very interesting story and, if nothing else, you can branch off of it to find some more information on Delia Bacon to support your theory/argument.

Hope it helps!
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Postby goleafsgo96 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:10 pm

Diablo13 wrote:
Delia Bacon offered a compelling argument that Sir Francis Bacon was the principal author of the writings of William Shakespeare, an allegation not as ludicrous as it sounds. Ample evidence supports this contention and believers included Mark Twain, Walt Whitman, Henry James, Sigmund Freud, and poet Ralph Waldo Emerson.


http://shop.alienzoo.com/conspiracytheory/shakespeareanconspiracy.html

Check this out man,
I was just cruising around some conspiracy theory sites and stumbled across this one. You may have seen it. This is a very interesting story and, if nothing else, you can branch off of it to find some more information on Delia Bacon to support your theory/argument.

Hope it helps!


thanks, this has alot of interesting info. i really wish i could just own my class and flat out prove it, but this is going to take some intense research just to form a valid opinion.
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Postby Diablo13 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:31 pm

In my exerience with public speacking, which is mostly PR related (and likely not at all up to your level of debating), I have learned that the best speaker is the one who is confident in what he or she believes. Confidence is the key. So I think that the best way to "own your class" is to be more confident that your opponent. The best way to solidify your confidence is to sell yourself on the information you are researching.

If you don't believe it yourself, you won't be very convincing. But if you can sell yourself, you will win in a landslide.

The common acceptance is that Shakespeare wrote what they say he did. Generally, people don't like to rock the boat of common acceptance. I am sure that you can go against the grain and buck the status quo of this thought. Just gotta convince yourself first.
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Postby portisfan24 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:04 pm

goleafsgo96 wrote:I believe the argument is that there WAS a William Shakespeare, he just wasnt the writer. We (meaning non beleivers, though im not quite sure) know there was someone with this name, and yes he has a house and yes he has a tomb, but this guys parents were also illiterate, and this guy never went to school. Whered he get these skills from? Just some food for thought


you keep coming back to the illiterate parents. Literacy is not intelligence. Poeple who never had the opportunity to learn to read and write arent always dumb.
Then there is the lack of early schooling. All I can do is draw a comparison to einstein, who was considered nearly mentally retarded until the age of 12. Some people are just late bloomers.
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