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Do owners in your league think their guys are the best?

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Do owners in your league think their guys are the best?

Postby warrick95 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:03 am

I'm trying to keep an open mind on my players when I trade, but other owners don't seem to do so.

I proposed Mewelde Moore and Rod Smith for Hines Ward back in Moore's heyday...when he was gaining 150+ combined yardage PER WEEK. The other guy's RBs at the time were (and still, though with DB in for Priest for the time being): Priest, W. Green, E. Smith, and Q. Griffin (who he had a ray of hope for). Hardly a sound situation, though Smith has been better than expected. Since we can start up to four RBs (two flex), that trade seemed to make a lot of sense. What happens? He calls me out on the message board, calling it a ridiculous trade. Selling high on Mewelde was a good idea and Mewelde was worth almost near the echelon of Hines on boards at the time.

I just proposed Rod Smith and Julius Jones for Andre Johnson. The owner thought I was proposing a deal as no studs for one stud. How? AJ gets pub because he was a high pick, but Rod has been consistently solid. AJ is the 9th WR in our scoring format and Rod the 15th. 80 points so far this season to 74.43. Hardly a large margin. You'd figure Julius Jones, who impressively dropped 81 on 30 carries against Baltimore, actually, and had 30 carries to George's 3 would be enough to fill the gap. Wonder what will happen on Thanksgiving with the splitting of carries. :-D Anyway, HIS RBs are Eddie George and Lee Suggs. It may be understandable for the FIRST owner to not want to trade, but this one? Please...his RBs are beyond horrible.

I hate playing with these types of owners...and they don't respond to emails, either. Say they're too busy...it takes a few minutes, actually. :-t I have five great RBs (James, Lewis, McAllister, Droughns, and C. Brown)...have shopped them for over a month and can't get ANYTHING that would help me enough...they think Harrison is worth way more than C. Brown (pre-injury). I can't get the sufficient value for me to pull a deal. RBs are worth more than WRs. Why don't they get it? And my horrible starting WRs (Koren on suspension now...dropped), because I dropped Branch for JJ and Branch was scooped up...are Ro. Smith, Coles, and Stallworth. Wish me luck. Any of y'all in these types of situations?
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Postby Bowie » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:44 am

The quantity for quality proposals tend to lead to rejections.

In your first trade, you were giving up a consistantly decent WR and a RB who's future consisted of starting until the THREE other starter quality RBs on his team got healthy. You were asking for a legitimate stud (at the time) WR in return. As it turns out, that trade would not have been a good one for the other player. How can you criticize him for being right?

In your second trade, you again offer a suspect RB and Smith for a legitamate (although less so than Ward) stud WR. Smith is again, consistant, but does not have anywhere near the potential to blow up as Johnson. Jones just came off an injury onto a team with two other RBs who have seen time all year. He FINALLY gets the bulk of the carries but only manages 2.7 yards per carry. He is hardly a sure thing. We'll see how this one would have turned out.

In your third trade (it seems), you offer an injury prone Brown, who is starting for the first year on a horrible offense, for a ver proven Harrison on an offensive giant. Funny that Brown, whose major concern was his durability, is seemingly questionable every week now.

Personally, especially in a league with two flex positions, I would have had to give serious thought to all of those trades you offered. However, if I had accepted any of them (we'll see on the second one) I would be kicking myself today.

I guess my point here is this: FF players are only as valuable as what you can get for them. If your offers were so good, why are you so mad they were not accepted?

How are you doing in your league?
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Postby matmat » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:45 pm

there is no way I would accept any of those trades unless I had a totally open spot on my roster that I couldn't fill, in which case I'd probably take the second one.

Perhaps the fault lies with you overvaluing the guys that you are trying to trade away and undervaluing the guys that you are trying to bring back?
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Postby Justifiable_Sin » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:34 pm

The art of trading boils down to a variety of factors ...
timing, psychology, depth (or lack of) ...and of course blind luck

but even when it appears that all these factors may be stacked up in your favor ....one can never assume the thought process of those you are trying to exploit

Your best course of action ...is to simply keep trying...and never tip your hand as to your disposition. If someone turns you down, do not get pissed....(or at very least let them know youre pissed)

....politely accept their denial and try to restructure the deal or move on to an alternate offer with another team owner

Ive been fortunate to work four trades this year but have had twice as many turned down.

Example of my most recent trade.... involved trading Rattay and Hoover away....for Lelie and Lions special teams. The team owner I targeted had just lost Pennington and had Plummer saddled with a bye week ...consequently he was desperate for QB
....he also had great depth in receivers and could afford to give up Lelie.
Up until two weeks ago...the Lions special teams had been in a mini-slump....and Hoover looked like the lead candidate to assume mop up duties that Davis's injury had left behind. Consequently....all the factors listed above allowed me to pull this particular trade off

Good Luck in your further exploits (hope Ive helped you)
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Postby ShowStopper » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:47 pm

At least the other owners are telling you why they declined. Of all the trade proposals I've made this year, only one has declined with a explamation as to why he didn't like the trade. The most I got out of the others was a "sorry".

Point being is that it could be worse. You could not have a clue why they didn't like the trade...
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Postby Chopper » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:57 pm

Good advice, Sin.

I recently had a trade rejected with the note: "And just how in the he!! does this help ME?"

I politely pointed out what I thought were the shortcomings of his team with regards to injuries and scheduling. Then two days later, I proposed nearly the same deal, if maybe slightly better for me than the first, and he jumped on it.
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Postby warrick95 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:34 pm

Thanks for the help, Sin.

As for Bowie and matmat, I'm not saying that I expected any of those buy lows/sell highs to be accepted, but I really think they were better deals than they gave me credit for. For example, the first owner CALLED ME OUT on the message board announcing that I was trying to stick one up his ass. Sure, it was a buy low/sell high, but was it THAT bad? Mewelde was putting up 150+ yards consistently each week. In addition, it seemed to many that he would retain his starting role from then on. By the way...he only had two starter quality backs? Green's splitting at best...Griffin was IR by then.

I like JJ way more than others it seems. 30 carries to 3 in a game, to me, makes it clear to me that George is done. A 2.7 against Baltimore, IMO, was not bad at all. The Boys' schedule down the stretch (CHI, SEA, @NO, @PHI, WAS...17 is irrelevant in our league), is hardly stacked with feared run defenses, either.

The Brown deal was proposed right when he was hot and Harrison was having trouble getting catches with Wayne in the offense. It was before his streak of questionables, which is why I was sort of appalled that he had Harrison above Brown. Plus, he's not great at RB, either, with Morris, Pittman, and K. Jones. Quantity? Kinda...but not real good quality at all.

As you can see, I did a lot of thinking to come up with these deals and really do not appreciate the negative reactions they generated...by people who apparently looked for two secs before opening their traps.

I guess I'm also expecting owners to be too gullible. I traded Hass/Shockey/Fitz for Deuce/McMichael/Koren early on in the season. Since that was accepted, I figured I could get anything to go.

I'm in 2nd right now, but this has been an unusually bad year for RBs...which is what my team is built around. I've been hobbling all year, too, so I'm doing fairly well considering that. See...my offers ARE good...because the players I'd be giving up would help the other team, but they don't help me on my bench. Therein lies the problem.

Well, I'm not getting reasons. I formulated reasons why they didn't accept them. One basically told me...why are you trying to stick one up my ass...the second gave me a reasons...the third has postponed a trade for nearly TWO MONTHS because he's "busy" (how busy can you be to not get a trade done in ten minutes...meaning return an email in ten minutes, although he wants to get something done, according to him. I can't take a league with this sort of participation. I'm going to look for a $ league on the Cafe next year.
"The son of Bobby Bowden once again proved he's as predictable as a Julia Roberts' movie.

And upon further review, just as sappy, too."
-Naples Daily News
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Postby Bowie » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:07 pm

I read your original post as a rant over their stupidity for not accepting your offer. If you are mad about their reaction rather than the rejection itself, than I totally agree with you. I hate it when people get offended over trade offers. I've never understood why. If they don't like a trade, they should counter or explain why they don't like it so that they might get a better deal.
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Postby warrick95 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:15 pm

Exactly. That was my post...it may have sounded like a rant because I was explaining where I was coming from for each deal, to counter their extremely negative reactions over them. I would've liked an acceptance, but it was definitely the reactions, not the rejections, that got to me.

On the other hand, the 2nd owner emailed me and said that he didn't read the email I sent about Jones, Smith, and AJ where I explained how it would help each side. He said he's going to go back and reevaluate...he's basically admitting that he jumped the gun a bit when calling the deal a total ripoff.
"The son of Bobby Bowden once again proved he's as predictable as a Julia Roberts' movie.

And upon further review, just as sappy, too."
-Naples Daily News
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Postby The_Commish » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:28 pm

Of course I think my guys are the best -- or I wouldn't of drafted them!
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