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Tatum Bell may play next week @KC after all (link)

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Postby saundman2000 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:00 am

I've read that Bell's injury was a THIRD DEGREE shoulder separation. If separations are rated the same way as burns, that means his shoulder is in really really bad shape.

I could see a team playing a guy with that injury if he was their super stud and had noone else that could take his place, but in Denver's situation, they've got Droughns sitting right there. Droughns was the #1 going into Sunday, so why would he not be the #1 with Bell presumably on the IR?
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Postby saundman2000 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:01 am

Is that right .... third degree is worse than first?
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Postby defianthart » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:14 pm

this is from the denver broncos injury report:

DENVER -- To look at Tatum Bell, one wouldn't know that he separated his shoulder a day earlier.

For one thing, his arm is not in a sling, as one would expect it to be after suffering a third-degree shoulder separation. His shoulder didn't even have any tape on it as he ventured through the locker room on Monday afternoon.

Not only was a sling not present, it wasn't even considered after he injured the shoulder on the Broncos' second possession of the third period in the 20-17 win over Miami.

"We didn't even talk about a sling," said Bell, who ran for 123 yards and scored twice before falling to injury. "I didn't even ask for one, and they didn't say anything to me about one."

With proper protection, Bell feels as if he can play at Kansas City.

"That's my mindset," he said. "Just get a pad. Hopefully my strength will be back where I can just where a pad on it and I'll be able to take (the discomfort)."

Added Head Coach Mike Shanahan: "He’ll have a pad on there. It’s an injury that can be (treated with a injection) to alleviate some of the pain."

The injury shouldn't take months to heal, but perhaps days, Bell believes.

"I'm just going day-to-day, basically," he said. "It wasn't a two- or three-week thing, (trainers and doctors) told me. So, basically it's day-to-day."

Just as encouraging to Shanahan was the fact that Head Athletic Trainer Steve Antonopulos was able to recite a list of players who returned to action one week after incurring a third-degree shoulder separation.

"I asked (Antonopulos) to go back over the last 15 years or 20 years and tell me the people that were able to play the following week with a third-degree separation," Shanahan said. "He went through about 10 or 15 guys that were able to play the following week. So that was a little encouraging."

One of those players was Terrell Davis, who fought through a shoulder injury late in the 1997 season to help lead the Broncos on a playoff run to their first world championship.

So this injury could stand a referendum on Bell's ability to play through pain. He missed time with finger, rib and hamstring injuries earlier in the year.

"We’ll get a chance to see how tough he is because it is tough to play with that type of injury," Shanahan said. "But people have done it."

Bell believes he might be the next to do so.

"There are some good signs. It depends how fast my body can recover," he said. "I want to play this week, especially coming off a good game. I just don't want to be a one-game wonder. I want to keep it going."
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Postby ramble2 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:07 pm

How quickly Bell can recover from that kind of shoulder separation depends on a lot of things. One aspect is whether or not he's ever dislocated that shoulder before, or had a history of partial dislocations. I've had several shoulder injuries involving anything from partial to full dislocations (former swimmer, current skiier). With each consequent dislocation, the healing process is much quicker (though the shoulder also becomes more and more likely to suffer another separation).

If he wasn't in a sling, I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting on Sunday. That'd be great for me, as I'll be able to go with McGahee, J. Lewis and Bell. Too bad I couldn't get healthy players in time for me to make the playoffs. :~(
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Postby Ricky_Christ » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:22 pm

:-D This is one of those calls that may end a lot of seasons.

I'm trying to decide if I want to take a chance on Bell, or stick with Larry Johnson running against Denver. Guess we'll have to wait a few days for more info.

Stupid Eli! Stop crapping all over my Tiki Barber! :-P
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Postby Goatwhacker » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:23 pm

ramble2 wrote:How quickly Bell can recover from that kind of shoulder separation depends on a lot of things. One aspect is whether or not he's ever dislocated that shoulder before, or had a history of partial dislocations.


This is comparing apples and oranges. A separation is a ligament injury, with a 3rd degree being a complete tear of the ligament. A dislocation means the head of the humerus actually comes out of it's "socket" and either pops back in on it's own or has to be put back in.

I am used to seeing separations either being surgically corrected or immobilized for some time. With a pro athlete, though, all bets are off and maybe they would be willing to play through the pain and delay surgery.
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Postby ramble2 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:50 pm

Goatwhacker wrote:
ramble2 wrote:How quickly Bell can recover from that kind of shoulder separation depends on a lot of things. One aspect is whether or not he's ever dislocated that shoulder before, or had a history of partial dislocations.


This is comparing apples and oranges. A separation is a ligament injury, with a 3rd degree being a complete tear of the ligament. A dislocation means the head of the humerus actually comes out of it's "socket" and either pops back in on it's own or has to be put back in.

I am used to seeing separations either being surgically corrected or immobilized for some time. With a pro athlete, though, all bets are off and maybe they would be willing to play through the pain and delay surgery.


Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't paying enough attention to the details of whether Bell had a dislocation or separation. I don't know whether a history of dislocations would help mitigate the pain of a separation or not. I also don't know how the pain level of a separation compares to that of a dislocation. Let's hope not so bad, so that Bell plays!
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Postby defianthart » Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:15 pm

well 15-20 people coming back after a week seems like a good sign, and they said they can give him an injection to help with the pain. that and he seems hellbent on playing.
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Postby cruiz03 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:45 am

I don't know if anyone got a chance to see him run, but he was impresive. I knew he was fast but didn't know the was strong enough to break tackels so well.

I've got to decide whether to play him against KC (if he plays) or D. McAllister against Tampa. Right now it looks like McAllister and E. James against the Raves will be my RB team.

When i saw him rip the Miami defense I began to drool. Finally, one RB with a matchup worth being exited about in week 15.....no longer the case with this injury. To much risk to play a player 2nd in the RB depth chart with a 3rd Deg Seperation.
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Postby Patsy Player » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:14 am

I have both Droughns and Bell. I do not think Bell will be playing this weekend, here are my reasons why:

1) I do not see the point in playing someone with this type of injury just because he had a good game. If he was all you had then maybe......but when you have Droughns...and then Hearst as his backup it would be foolish to risk further damage to a talented ROOKIE RB. In the playoff hunt, towards the end of the season with a bad shoulder is not the time to start the auditions for next years starter, nor is it worth the gamble based off one start to see if he should be your starter at the end of your season. They will be plenty of time when Bell is healthy to fight for the starters job in the mini camps and pre season.

2) I think the fact that Shanahan asked the trainer for examples of guys coming back and playing with this severe of an injury shows he will not be playing. We all remember what happened a few years ago with Shanahan playing out his injured/not injured games with the media, the league slapped him on the wrist. Now he has something to point to when Bells sits, and the league ask why he was saying he would play, but he didn't.

3) If he thought Droughns fumbling was annoying wait till Bell carries the ball a few times. You might as well paint a big target on Bell at this point if he does play, cause everyone and their mother will be sticking there helmets right on that shoulder. I don't care if he carries the ball on his good hand, between whinching in pain, or having to make a choice between dropping the ball and bracing a fall with the good arm, or holding the ball and crushing that shoulder....I am sure after a few landings with that bad shoulder the ball will start to be forgotton.

This is my opinion of course, and Shanahan is a crazy SOB sometimes. It would be a huge mistake in my eyes for him to play Bell at this point. Who knows, with pain killers and modern medicine maybe Bell wouldn't feel a thing, but pain killers will not stop further damage.....only that he won't feel it happening.
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