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Vick gets more dough than Manning!

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Postby CC » Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:50 pm

You all that believe Vick isn't worth this refuse to believe that he can get better as a passer, his raw talents give him the potential to be dominant.
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Postby deluxe_247 » Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:57 pm

Dr. Duran Duran wrote:I still can't believe Vick got voted to the Pro Bowl.

Look, the conract is an awful lot of pressure on his shoulders when you consider that he really hasn't done much so far. Don't get me wrong, I think that he is a tremendously talented athlete with all the potential of becoming a great quarterback. But, that potential has to come to fruitition soon for the contract to be worthwhile, and I don't think it will.

He's completing 55.7% of his passes this season. That's less than Kyle Boller's completion percentage. He also has less TD passes and more interceptions than Joey Harrington. Pretty frightening comparisons, but they are accurate.

Yes, the rushing yards are nice, but Randall Cunningham never won a Super Bowl and he played during an era where it was unheard of for a quarterback to scramble like he did. I still say, for a quarterback to lead a successful team he has to be able to throw the ball well and Vick simply doesn't do that.


finally someone talking some sense. couldnt have said it better ;-D
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Postby WatchMeDisappear » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:39 pm

VHawk15 wrote:Yeah, I think this team is one top-flight WR away from a Super Bowl run. They've got the defense, the three-prong running game of Vick, Duckett, and Dunn, a solid TE in Crumpler, and a good #2 WR in Price. Give the Falcons a Joe Horn, Hines Ward, Andre Johnson, or even a Roy Williams and they may be Super Bowlin'.

Not to mention it would help Vick out fantasy-wise.


Um, you could say that about just about any team. Give the Cowboys, Redskins, Ravens, etc, etc, etc a QB like Peyton Manning McNabb, or even a Daunte Culpepper and they could make the super bowl.



Edited by VHawk-watch your language, young man.
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Postby CC » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:48 pm

A good WR is a lot easier to acquire than a good QB.
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Postby VHawk15 » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:51 pm

WatchMeDisappear wrote:
VHawk15 wrote:Yeah, I think this team is one top-flight WR away from a Super Bowl run. They've got the defense, the three-prong running game of Vick, Duckett, and Dunn, a solid TE in Crumpler, and a good #2 WR in Price. Give the Falcons a Joe Horn, Hines Ward, Andre Johnson, or even a Roy Williams and they may be Super Bowlin'.

Not to mention it would help Vick out fantasy-wise.


Um, you could say that about just about any team. Give the Cowboys, Redskins, Ravens, etc, etc, etc a QB like Peyton Manning McNabb, or even a Daunte Culpepper and they could make the super bowl.


Well, first of all, I wasn't talking about stud QB's, I was talking about second or third tier WR's. I would say there's a slight difference in the value of the best player and MVP of the league and the value of Roy Williams, a rookie WR.

Secondly, you're wrong. The Colts, with their numerous weapons on offense, can't even win a Super Bowl (or get there) with Manning, what makes you think the Redskins or Cowboys could? Same thing with the Vikes. They can barely make it into the playoffs in the horrible NFC and they have about three solid RB's, as well as the best WR in the league. But, of course, if Culpepper played for the Cowboys, they'd win the Super Bowl.

Sorry man, but your post bordered on being embarassing to the COSFATC. (Coalition Of Seahawk Fans At The Cafe)
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Postby WatchMeDisappear » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:54 am

VHawk15 wrote: Well, first of all, I wasn't talking about stud QB's, I was talking about second or third tier WR's. I would say there's a slight difference in the value of the best player and MVP of the league and the value of Roy Williams, a rookie WR.

Secondly, you're wrong. The Colts, with their numerous weapons on offense, can't even win a Super Bowl (or get there) with Manning, what makes you think the Redskins or Cowboys could? Same thing with the Vikes. They can barely make it into the playoffs in the horrible NFC and they have about three solid RB's, as well as the best WR in the league. But, of course, if Culpepper played for the Cowboys, they'd win the Super Bowl.



Well you said give the Falcons a WR like WArd, Horn, Andre, or Roy and they could be in the SB. In other words give them a top 5-10 WR and it will be all good. Load WAshingtons or Baltimores arsenal with a top 5-10 QB and you could say the same thing. Indy hasnt got to the SB because their defense licks nuts, put Manning him on the REdskins and they would be their.
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Postby VHawk15 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:17 am

WatchMeDisappear wrote:
VHawk15 wrote: Well, first of all, I wasn't talking about stud QB's, I was talking about second or third tier WR's. I would say there's a slight difference in the value of the best player and MVP of the league and the value of Roy Williams, a rookie WR.

Secondly, you're wrong. The Colts, with their numerous weapons on offense, can't even win a Super Bowl (or get there) with Manning, what makes you think the Redskins or Cowboys could? Same thing with the Vikes. They can barely make it into the playoffs in the horrible NFC and they have about three solid RB's, as well as the best WR in the league. But, of course, if Culpepper played for the Cowboys, they'd win the Super Bowl.




Well you said give the Falcons a WR like WArd, Horn, Andre, or Roy and they could be in the SB. In other words give them a top 5-10 WR and it will be all good. Load WAshingtons or Baltimores arsenal with a top 5-10 QB and you could say the same thing. Indy hasnt got to the SB because their defense licks nuts, put Manning him on the REdskins and they would be their.


Yes, I totally understand what you're trying to say, but it makes absolutely no sense. How are you going to compare a borderline top 10 NFL WR (and I doubt I would call Andre Johnson or Roy Williams that yet) to the best player in the NFL right now? Manning isn't just a "5-10 QB" if you haven't noticed, the guy is the single-most dominant football player in the world and just capped off the best season of anyone who has ever played his position. But, of course, by your standards, he has the same effect and has the same pricetag as a borderline top 10 WR.
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:49 am

If Vick goes to win the Super Bowl, is he worth it? I think so. Right now, the Falcons are in a prime position to get to the super bowl. I don't know if they can win, but I know for a fact Micheal Vick makes this all possible. And there is no bigger difference from a Vickless Falcons to a Vicked Falcons anywhere else in the NFL. (Dont say Indy, because that team still has Edge.)
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Postby maddog60 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:23 pm

Vick

16 TDs vs. 19 turnovers
< 3200 total yards
55.7 completion percentage

Earth to Vick supporters: he's a QB. His job, his role, what he gets paid to do is pass. 1000 yards rushing would be nice if he were merely the RB. I don't care how a QB gets yards, but he's responsible for getting yards and moving the ball. Vick doesn't get yards. He causes far too many turnovers and not enough TDs. He's hurt his team more times than he's helped them this year. He's quite lucky only 7 of his whopping 15 fumbles were lost to the other team.

Look at how he holds the ball when he scrambles. It's down around his waist in one hand. Other scrambling QBs hold the ball cocked and ready to be thrown when they scramble, until they tuck and run. This isn't a fine point and tricky aspect of the game, this is a fundamental that a 4th year player should not need correcting on. It's costing his team drives, and he's costing his team. Injuries aside, Vick is still getting treated like a rookie despite having not improved at all in 4 years. In fact he's worse than he was 2 years ago.

Also, someone claimed Vick's completion percentage is about what McNabb's was pre-TO. That's incorrect. To this very day Vick has not finished a season with a completion percentage higher than McNabb's since McNabb became the full time starter. Vick can't pass. A strong arm is nice, but if its not on target, it's meaningless.

Finally, Vick and toughness. I have two words: Brett Favre. Until Vick plays a season with a broken thumb, eclipses 200 consecutive games played, and much more, he doesn't stand a chance. If being sacked makes someone the toughest QB, than Bledsoe and Carr must be tough as nails. Luckily, such faulty logic isn't correct.
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Postby WatchMeDisappear » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:39 pm

VHawk15 wrote:Yes, I totally understand what you're trying to say, but it makes absolutely no sense. How are you going to compare a borderline top 10 NFL WR (and I doubt I would call Andre Johnson or Roy Williams that yet) to the best player in the NFL right now? Manning isn't just a "5-10 QB" if you haven't noticed, the guy is the single-most dominant football player in the world and just capped off the best season of anyone who has ever played his position. But, of course, by your standards, he has the same effect and has the same pricetag as a borderline top 10 WR.


The thing about you is that you take one thing someone says and throws everything else he says out the window. I didnt say just Manning on of those teams, I said Manning or McNabb or Culpepper. And I'd say Andre Johnson is probably a top 5 WR, Roy top 10 when healthy. The point is you could have stated the same thing for just about any team and say they could make the SB.
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