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Vick gets more dough than Manning!

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Postby Justifiable_Sin » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:57 pm

Holy Crap !!!

it almost appears I must hire an attorney to participate in this line of thread...or at the very least....meet the prerequisite of quoting someone elses opinion....

I'll be brief and to the point....

Vick is grossly overpaid....
Vick's publicist and agent are grossly underpaid
***A clear conscience is only a clear sign of a horrible memory***
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:07 pm

34=Sweetness wrote:Quarterbacks are paid to win, not accumulate stats.


No. QBs paid to contribute to winning, by leading the offense, playing their positions, which involves mainly, throwing the football. If you think the QB is the sole contributer to a team's win, you're out of your mind. There's at the very least 24 guys any given game that are "paid to win." No one says Lechler is paid to win though, because he isn't. He's paid to punt, and by punting very well he helps the team win. If anyone is paid to win, its the head coach, or even better the team as a whole cohesive unit is paid to win.

34=Sweetness wrote:Last time I checked, the Falcons win a lot when Vick plays. And they lose a lot when he doesnt.


And you've got stats that actually verify his presence is the difference? Surely you've noticed how the Atlanta defense performed very well in 2002 and 2004, but not in 2003. That team doesn't win on the strength of an offensive, but on a talented defense. If you somehow think QB injuries greatly affect their team's defenses, click here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/rambli ... 259&cat=11

34=Sweetness wrote:And don't tell me Brett Favre doesn't screw up, because he makes PLENTY of stupid plays every year.


Wouldn't deny it, but my argument on Favre was solely that he's a tougher QB. However, seeing how he is a lock for the Hall of Fame, you're in an uphill battle to argue that Vick is a better QB.
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Postby LT Blue Colt » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:02 pm

I have to admit I don't really like Vick now. He gets a little too much plublicity for how good he really is. Kinda like Joey Harrington. :-D
But, I don't doubt for one second that Vick will have some amazing years to come. Especially if he can get one or two great WR's like McNabb has over the next year or so.
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:09 pm

maddog60 wrote:
34=Sweetness wrote:Quarterbacks are paid to win, not accumulate stats.


No. QBs paid to contribute to winning, by leading the offense, playing their positions, which involves mainly, throwing the football. If you think the QB is the sole contributer to a team's win, you're out of your mind. There's at the very least 24 guys any given game that are "paid to win." No one says Lechler is paid to win though, because he isn't. He's paid to punt, and by punting very well he helps the team win. If anyone is paid to win, its the head coach, or even better the team as a whole cohesive unit is paid to win.

34=Sweetness wrote:Last time I checked, the Falcons win a lot when Vick plays. And they lose a lot when he doesnt.


And you've got stats that actually verify his presence is the difference? Surely you've noticed how the Atlanta defense performed very well in 2002 and 2004, but not in 2003. That team doesn't win on the strength of an offensive, but on a talented defense. If you somehow think QB injuries greatly affect their team's defenses, click here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/rambli ... 259&cat=11

34=Sweetness wrote:And don't tell me Brett Favre doesn't screw up, because he makes PLENTY of stupid plays every year.


Wouldn't deny it, but my argument on Favre was solely that he's a tougher QB. However, seeing how he is a lock for the Hall of Fame, you're in an uphill battle to argue that Vick is a better QB.
Whoa, when did I ever say that Vick is better than Favre? You are putting words in my mouth! I just said he screws up often. And, heres the only stats that I need to prove his presence makes a major difference: The Falcons have made the 2nd round of the playoffs each year he has started, and they have been awful in the 2 years he has not played, whether by bench or injury. Seems like a huge difference to me. Its not like the Falcons defense is a huge improvement over last years, they are slightly better, but Vicks playmaking ability is allowing the Falcons to score more points than their D gives up.
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Postby maddog60 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:57 am

34=Sweetness wrote:Whoa, when did I ever say that Vick is better than Favre? You are putting words in my mouth! I just said he screws up often. And, heres the only stats that I need to prove his presence makes a major difference: The Falcons have made the 2nd round of the playoffs each year he has started, and they have been awful in the 2 years he has not played, whether by bench or injury. Seems like a huge difference to me. Its not like the Falcons defense is a huge improvement over last years, they are slightly better, but Vicks playmaking ability is allowing the Falcons to score more points than their D gives up.


My apologies if I assumed wrongly, but you appeared to be arguing the faults of Favre's playing ability compared to Vick, if which one is better is not the point you were trying to make, what may I ask was?

More importantly, you have to back up your claims. Yes, they win more when Vick plays, but that itself does not prove that Vick is the cause of their increased wins. Its especially hard to make that case when there's other statistical evidence that supports the contrary claim (see the link I provided in the previous post). I mean if you can prove with some facts that Vick is in fact the cause of those wins, by all means I'd like to see that argument put forth, but otherwise you're just making proclamations that have no backing and they really should if we're going to argue a QBs merits.
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Postby Ironhorse75 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:59 am

Aren't those two games he won this year proof that he is a difference maker?

He didn't do a lot, not even by a long shot, but he did what was needed when it counted (final drive of the 4th quarters).

His presence on the field alone disrupts defenses. Does he take full advantage of it? Not even close, but I still don't think Schaub could have brought home a division title.

But really, there are too many what if's in this argument and we've already gone in circles.
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