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So pretty much everyone is writing the 15-1 Steelers off...

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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:52 pm

The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the nasty Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I don't like these trite sayings. Defense wins championships. Pitching and defense win championships. They mean nothing.

However, the Steelers have both--good offense and defense. That's why I think it will be either them or the Pats to go to the Superbowl. I expect the Steelers and Pats to win this weekend.
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Postby JimmyChoi » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:13 pm

I thought everyone was writing off the Jets....excellent now we are writing off the Steelers...better for us...
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Postby mtryanks12 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:28 pm

The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I agree 100%. New England, Tampa Bay, and Baltimore all have great defense, and they have been the most recent super bowl winners. In fact, none of these teams had an amazing offense when they won the super bowl.
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Postby Kensat30 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:35 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the nasty Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I don't like these trite sayings. Defense wins championships. Pitching and defense win championships. They mean nothing.

However, the Steelers have both--good offense and defense. That's why I think it will be either them or the Pats to go to the Superbowl. I expect the Steelers and Pats to win this weekend.


When was the last time with a team with a defense rated outside the top10 was the winner of the Super Bowl? Go back more than 20 years... Defenses do win championships. Just look at the 2000 Ravens championship team and tell me how their offense won them a ring. Better yet, show me a great offensive team with a poor defense that won it all. I'd love to see your results.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:55 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the nasty Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I don't like these trite sayings. Defense wins championships. Pitching and defense win championships. They mean nothing.

However, the Steelers have both--good offense and defense. That's why I think it will be either them or the Pats to go to the Superbowl. I expect the Steelers and Pats to win this weekend.


When was the last time with a team with a defense rated outside the top10 was the winner of the Super Bowl? Go back more than 20 years... Defenses do win championships. Just look at the 2000 Ravens championship team and tell me how their offense won them a ring. Better yet, show me a great offensive team with a poor defense that won it all. I'd love to see your results.


I'm not arguing that defense isn't important, but just because it has happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future.

Good teams win in the playoffs. I don't think discounting one team's specialty over another's makes any sense.

Considering your beliefs, though, you must be picking the Patriots to beat the Colts?
Brady: a "very mediocre QB" - no1cowboysfan

Mitchell: "To me, the Patriots are not that good. ... We're the better team... A good team crushes that Patriot team. I'm telling you, they're not that good.'
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Postby Kensat30 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:49 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the nasty Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I don't like these trite sayings. Defense wins championships. Pitching and defense win championships. They mean nothing.

However, the Steelers have both--good offense and defense. That's why I think it will be either them or the Pats to go to the Superbowl. I expect the Steelers and Pats to win this weekend.


When was the last time with a team with a defense rated outside the top10 was the winner of the Super Bowl? Go back more than 20 years... Defenses do win championships. Just look at the 2000 Ravens championship team and tell me how their offense won them a ring. Better yet, show me a great offensive team with a poor defense that won it all. I'd love to see your results.


I'm not arguing that defense isn't important, but just because it has happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future.

Good teams win in the playoffs. I don't think discounting one team's specialty over another's makes any sense.

Considering your beliefs, though, you must be picking the Patriots to beat the Colts?


Good teams win the Super Bowl... That's a given. But the fact of the matter is that a very strong trend dictates that you need a top10 defense to win the Super Bowl. Yet, you DO NOT need a top10 offense to win. In fact in 3 of the last 4 years, the #1 ranked defense in the league won it all and each year NONE of these teams were ranked as a top10 NFL offense. The Patriot's in 2001 were ranked 6th both offensively and defensively.

Considering my beliefs, I would say that the Colt's stand very little chance of winning the Super Bowl. Out of the teams left in the running, I'll go so far as to say that either NYJets, NE, Pitt, or Philly wins it all. Philly seems the most likely to win it all on paper because of their solid defense and offense, but the loss of T.O. hinders their chances.
Last edited by Kensat30 on Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mtryanks12 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:52 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:
The Lung wrote:Defense wins championships. Everyone raved about the Baltimore and Buffalo defenses this year, but don't take the Steel Curtain defense for granted. This is a unit of which OLB James Harrison and ILB Kendrell Bell are backups to Clark Haggans and Larry Foote, respectively!


I don't like these trite sayings. Defense wins championships. Pitching and defense win championships. They mean nothing.

However, the Steelers have both--good offense and defense. That's why I think it will be either them or the Pats to go to the Superbowl. I expect the Steelers and Pats to win this weekend.


When was the last time with a team with a defense rated outside the top10 was the winner of the Super Bowl? Go back more than 20 years... Defenses do win championships. Just look at the 2000 Ravens championship team and tell me how their offense won them a ring. Better yet, show me a great offensive team with a poor defense that won it all. I'd love to see your results.


I'm not arguing that defense isn't important, but just because it has happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future.

Good teams win in the playoffs. I don't think discounting one team's specialty over another's makes any sense.

Considering your beliefs, though, you must be picking the Patriots to beat the Colts?


Considering my beliefs, I would say that the Colt's stand very little chance of winning the Super Bowl.


In my mind, the Colts have such a powerful offense that can overcome their mediocre defense. they have a chance of, say 33% that they will win the super bowl, after NE and pit.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Well look at that. ESPN has some stats. I know you have yours, but I tend to agree with these:
Defense wins Championships:

Theory popularized by: Football coaches, analysts and writers since the age of Rockne; the 2000 Baltimore Ravens; the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The numbers (examining the 52 Super Bowl teams since 1978, which is the advent of the 16-game schedule and more liberal passing rules)

Steelers defense
The Steelers' D allowed the fewest yards and points this season.

Ranked in regular-season top 5 in fewest yards allowed: 24 of 52 Super Bowl teams
Ranked in regular-season top 10 in fewest yards allowed: 35 of 52 Super Bowl teams

Ranked in regular-season top 5 in most yards gained: 24 of 52 Super Bowl teams
Ranked in regular-season top 10 in most yards gained: 38 of 52 Super Bowl teams

When's the last time you heard an analyst say, "Offense wins championships!" Fact is, a great defense is no more important than a great offense in reaching the Super Bowl. Taking it a step further, 10 teams which led the NFL in total yards reached the Super Bowl while five teams which led in fewest yards reached the Super Bowl.

Of the 12 playoff teams this season, five were in the top 10 in defense while nine were in the top 10 in offense.




http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... one/050111
Brady: a "very mediocre QB" - no1cowboysfan

Mitchell: "To me, the Patriots are not that good. ... We're the better team... A good team crushes that Patriot team. I'm telling you, they're not that good.'
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:45 pm

The Pats secondary will be calling Peyton Manning their daddy by the end of Sunday. I wholly expect the Colts to not only beat the Patriots, but also the Steelers and whatever shmuck team comes out of the NFC.
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Postby davus » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:47 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:Well look at that. ESPN has some stats. I know you have yours, but I tend to agree with these:
Defense wins Championships:

Theory popularized by: Football coaches, analysts and writers since the age of Rockne; the 2000 Baltimore Ravens; the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The numbers (examining the 52 Super Bowl teams since 1978, which is the advent of the 16-game schedule and more liberal passing rules)

Steelers defense
The Steelers' D allowed the fewest yards and points this season.

Ranked in regular-season top 5 in fewest yards allowed: 24 of 52 Super Bowl teams
Ranked in regular-season top 10 in fewest yards allowed: 35 of 52 Super Bowl teams

Ranked in regular-season top 5 in most yards gained: 24 of 52 Super Bowl teams
Ranked in regular-season top 10 in most yards gained: 38 of 52 Super Bowl teams

When's the last time you heard an analyst say, "Offense wins championships!" Fact is, a great defense is no more important than a great offense in reaching the Super Bowl. Taking it a step further, 10 teams which led the NFL in total yards reached the Super Bowl while five teams which led in fewest yards reached the Super Bowl.

Of the 12 playoff teams this season, five were in the top 10 in defense while nine were in the top 10 in offense.




http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... one/050111


I wonder how those numbers would look if you only took into account the last decade or so... :-?

The game seems to have changed a lot in that timespan.
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