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Randy Moss the Greatest NFL Player of All time

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Randy Moss the Greatest NFL Player of All time

Postby nickjumpman » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:54 am

Randy Moss is the Greatest NFL Player of All time

I am going to put this out here because I truly believe it and I would imagine there are going to be people that are going to say,
"You are a complete idiot if you think Moss is....."

I am also sure that there are other intelligent people out there that agree with me.

Since his rookie season, in which he had 1300 yards and 17 TDs, he has been the most dominating player in the NFL. THe best analogy is that Randy Moss is the Shaq of the NFL. You must double/triple cover this guy or he is going to score EVERY SINGLE PLAY. If you play man on Randy then it is going to be TD EVERY PLAY.

Let's go over his physical abilities which is obviously a key factor in determining the greatest of all time. Randy has the nickname "THE FREAK" for a reason. If you saw him walking down the street you would just stare at him cause he doesnt look normal. The guy is 6'5" with some of the longest arms and huge hands. Not only that, but he is an incredible jumper and is extremely agile for a mna his size. THen you just have to talk about the blazing speed. I am not sure there has ever been a player with higher top end speed than Moss.

All in all Randy changes the game by himself. It doesn't matter if Culpepper, Randal Cunningham, Jeff George, or even Gus Ferrote is throwing him the ball. The guy is still going to be the best WR in the NFL. In fact, I am pretty sure that I can go out there and just lob it up in the air and throw a couple of TDs.

We have never seen someone so physically dominant on offense ever.

Just to end this post I am willing to accept these other players as greatest of all time if you really think they are:

1) Jim Brown
2) Barry Sanders
3) Joe Montana
4) Marino
5) Elway
6) Unitas
7) Gus Ferrote

This post is not meant to provoke a bunch of " you are an idiot" responses. Save them for other threads. This is meant to continue some intelligent discussion on the greatest of all time.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:23 am

His career is amazing, to be sure, but I think we need to see what he does over an extended period before we start giving him this title. He's not even the best receiver of all time. Jerry Rice still wins that one.
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Postby kevinoc81 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:25 am

ATTENTION ALL VIKINGS FANS: THIS IS YOUR THREAD, HAVE FUN WITH IT!

Seriously though, I am not ready to give the award for "Greatest NFL Player of all Time," to someone who has only been in the league for 7 seasons. Someday...........Who knows? I doubt it, but who knows? Not today though.
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Postby eaglesrule » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:41 am

okay -- I DO NOT WANT MY POINT TO BE CONSTRUED IN GENERAL A REFERENDUM ON RINGS

However, When you are taking the title "best player EVER' -- I am not sure that considering you have the totality of the NFL as it ever existed, how this person can come from a pool that hasn't won an NFL title or Super Bowl. The exception I am willing to grant is Marino (a tired debate too)

There have been simply too many players who have had more longevity, mosre stats, more championships and more class than moss. I say class, because football is a team game. And if you aren't helping your team WIN, you aren't IMO "good". He seems to hurt his team quite a bit, you know with his ego, his distractions, and oh yea, his half-hearted play when he isn't getting the ball.

How this jackass can be mentioned in the same breath as jim bown, "sweetness", montana, bradshaw, marino, unitas, starr, lawrence taylor, jerry rice etc is absoloutely assinine.

Yea moss is a singular talent. But frankly, I think LT was more freakish in his uniqueness than anyone else I can think of.

Moss doesn't have teh resume boy. As was said -- he isn't even the best recevier of all time. I'm thinking rice on that one.

To be the best ever, I would think its a given you should be best at your position first -- then we'll talk about overall.
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Postby Bennett4prez » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:57 am

Being a Vikings fan, it makes me sick to think there is someone out there that thinks Randy Moss is the greatest athlete of all time. I can't even counter this. No argument. Moss, right now, isn't even the greatest WR of all time. This is like saying Terrell Davis is the best RB of all time.
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Postby Carolina Culpepper » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:58 am

eaglesrule wrote:okay -- I DO NOT WANT MY POINT TO BE CONSTRUED IN GENERAL A REFERENDUM ON RINGS

However, When you are taking the title "best player EVER' -- I am not sure that considering you have the totality of the NFL as it ever existed, how this person can come from a pool that hasn't won an NFL title or Super Bowl. The exception I am willing to grant is Marino (a tired debate too)

There have been simply too many players who have had more longevity, mosre stats, more championships and more class than moss. I say class, because football is a team game. And if you aren't helping your team WIN, you aren't IMO "good". He seems to hurt his team quite a bit, you know with his ego, his distractions, and oh yea, his half-hearted play when he isn't getting the ball.

How this jackass can be mentioned in the same breath as jim bown, "sweetness", montana, bradshaw, marino, unitas, starr, lawrence taylor, jerry rice etc is absoloutely assinine.

Yea moss is a singular talent. But frankly, I think LT was more freakish in his uniqueness than anyone else I can think of.

Moss doesn't have teh resume boy. As was said -- he isn't even the best recevier of all time. I'm thinking rice on that one.

To be the best ever, I would think its a given you should be best at your position first -- then we'll talk about overall.



Where do I start......

First of all let me say even though I am known as a strong Moss defender (right up there with MZimm!) I do not think that he is the best player of all time. I am not sure who I would even put in that place. I think that it is much easier to rank players by their positions and ask who is the best at each position. Having said that I do take exception with several comments from the above post. The idea that unless you were on a team that won a championship you cannot qualify for the best ever is not fair. My prime example would be Barry Sanders. I think you can make a VERY strong arguement that he was the best RB ever and yet he never won a championship, in fact I think he only got into the playoffs once or twice. Would you really be willing to say Emmitt Smith is the better runner simply because of his rings?

Secondly, while I don't think Moss is the best ever I do think that you can make a good arguement that he COULD be the best WR ever. Yes, we will have to wait a few more years to see. But truth is truth and at this point no WR in NFL history has better stats over their first seven years, including the immortal (at least to most on this cafe) Jerry Rice. I will say however that while his first six years he was an iron man, it does seem that injuries are catching up to him. Last year he played the whole year injured and this year we all know what happened. This in my mind is the only thing that could slow him down from being the best ever. I say this while acknowledging that he will never catch most of Rice's stats because, unlike Rice, he won't make a fool of himself by playing way past his prime. If you say he can't be called the best ever unless he puts up better lifetime numbers than Rice, I would again argue for people like Barry Sanders and Jim Brown. Does anyone really think Emmitt SMith is better than either of those just because his lifetime stats are better?
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Postby eaglesrule » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:18 pm

Well to anyone who wants to tangle -- first of all COULD and IS are two entirely different things. Moss could eventually be that guy -- he most certainly is not that guy now. He wasn't even statistically the best WR THIS year. Being healthy is part of longevity, which enters the debate.

As for the rings -- you can make a compelling case for Sanders as being the best ever. But eventually, I don't see how someone could claim he is the best when you have someone like Jim Brown or Walter Peyton is there. Or christ for that matter, emmitt smith (a point is comign with this one)

The point is that you have stats, and you have team success. Those are really the only two ways you can approach a topic like this. So yes, team success is part of being good. It has to be. Because in ANY of these cases, everyone mentioned is going to have wildly impressive stats.

Sanders stats weren't so much better than brown or emmitts or any of the best "Rb" of all time candidates.

I think that it is legitmate to demand that if the person is going to be in the running, and they haven't tasted the team success, their stats have to be above and beyong significantly. I know that barry isn't the all time leading rusher, he didn't have longevity, and brown had a damn high ypc and season totals despite fewer games. Im not so sure he was so much better than OJ Simpson either.

I think people confuse "most talented" with best.

Championships "count" - it is the point of playing, after all, it is the hardest team accomplishment. The point of being a player is to help the team win. So if you fall short, you do too.

As for deciding, think of it as a table ... (let's say montana/elway, moss/rice) I'll use pluses and minuses and explain


Stats Talent Team Success Championships


Montanta - - ++ ++

Marino + + - -



Rice + - ++ ++

Moss - + - -


Okay the point isn't to quibble too much with how I assigned their relative values -- its just a point of how I look at it.

It is fair to say that in some capactiy, post season success/team success have a place in the discussion. It is team game and the point of the exercise. Presumably, since we are talkingabotu greats, the teams that won got there largely because of the talents of the players we are talking about.

Yea, no one is a vaccum and unto themselves. But Im thinking jerry rice had a lot to do with things, as did montana, as did lt etc.

IT has a place in the discussion. and along the spectrum of things avaiable for judging, it has a role.

since we are dealing with folks that are the creme de la creme, EVERYONE is going to have stats, almost everyone will have team success, and almost everyone will have talent/highlight plays etc.

Now in mine, and MANY estimations, the talent and stats better grossly outsrip the other potential candidates. And even after that, its not a slam dunk case. That is why barry sanders will always be "one of the best ever" -- but others have great stats too, others have had major talent, and others have had much more team success.

I think marino gets touted as the exception because his stats are so far off the charts, that he is a different animal. I am fine with that.


But as was said, Moss isn't even the best receiver ever at his position. He wasn't the best this year.

what criteria would you use? stats? well I think rice has him on that one, both career and single season. Longevity? team success? contriubtions other than stats (blocking etc), talent?

Talent is the one thing I might yield on. But you are obviously talented to have accomplished what rice did.

so no, randy moss is not the best player ever. He isn't a slam dunk for best player at his position this year. And he certainly wouldn't even be the most talented or best player in the game right now -- I think peyton has that one.
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Postby nickjumpman » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:24 pm

Excellent Post Eaglesrule. Well respected.

But as far you saying the Randy wasnt even the best this year it doesnt matter. Do you think that Rice, Montana, Marino...always were the best every single year they played also? Not to mention Randy didnt play in 5 games and still scored 13 TDs.
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Postby Bennett4prez » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:42 pm

eaglesrule wrote:As for the rings --


AHHH!!! ENOUGH ABOUT SUPER BOWL RINGS!!!

Fine, Marino isn't the best quarterback. Fine, Brady is amazing. Fine, Favre beats Culpepper! Just no more talk about the amazing value of a super bowl ring!
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Postby eaglesrule » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:49 pm

my point was more like that you picked a funny season to bring this up.

moss is obviously the best receiver -- when healthy. but he isn't so much better than owens IMO, to make it a ridiculous debate Of course one is just getting rolling, and the other has a few good years behind him.

By bringing up this season I was makin the point that over a span AND in the here and now, moss isn't the slam dunk best WR. Even if he was, then you are comparing the totality of the nfl. its not really logical.
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