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Postby maddog60 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:14 am

Ironhorse75 wrote:
Think you could respond without all the sarcasm and trying to make me look stupid?


Not possible. At least not when you're criticizing the eagles.


Or when trying to explain how Michael Vick is still not a even a QB let alone worthy of a Pro Bowl selection.

I'm still waiting for someone to actually explain what the Vick Factor is, other than the obvious: jibberish used in place of the lack of evidence for why sports experts applaud a 4th year NFL vet who still doesn't understand a basic concept of football, that being: ball protection.
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:17 am

OwenTheBlonde wrote:Totally agree with joshy about snow vs wind. Big key. Vick is the beginning and end of this discussion though in my mind. He will either play really well or really poorly in the conditions. I think he plays well. He has proven so far to be a great player in big games and weather or the road don't seem to bother him (Green Bay 2 years ago). Granted, not a lot of precedent but he knows how to win.


If we're going to use Vick's former playoff games as reference for how to expect him to play let's include them all. And I think we could all agree that his performance vs. the Eagles in 2002 would be a better guage to use since it's a game against the same team with many of the same players.

Let's hope for Vick's sake he doesn't stand at the goalline and give Lito Sheppard a pat on the back instead of trying to salvage 7 points after throwing a pick like he did with Bobby Taylor too years ago.
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:46 am

Demented Avenger wrote:The Eagles' return unit isn't better.


kick returns:
JR Reed - 761 yards, avg return of 23.1 yards
Rossum - 1250 yards, avg return of 21.6 yards

punt returns:
Wynn - 194 yards, avg return of 10.8 yards
Rossum - 457 yards, avg return of 12.4 yards

So just looking at the returners, you have an edge to the Eagles in kick returns, and an edge to the Falcons in punt returns. So far its a wash.

Now examine the kickers. Many people often forget half of a kickers job is not field goals, but kickoffs. Feely is neither better at kickoffs or on field goals than Akers (see http://www.footballoutsiders.com/rambli ... 1798&cat=3 for supporting evidence of claim).

Advantage, Philly.

Then you have to look at return coverage. The Eagles in both punting and kickoffs get a higher average net yardage than the Falcons. Combine that with the fact that the Eagles are sending the NFC's sole return coverage Pro Bowler, Ike Reese, to Hawaii. They clearly have the advantage in return coverage.

So with return men drawing, but the kick and coverage being superior, the Eagle do have an advantage in special teams.
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Postby Demented Avenger » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:43 am

Demented Avenger wrote:The Eagles' return unit isn't better.
"The signature"
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Vick Factor

Postby e-man » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:24 am

Last year 4 wins without Vick....This year playing for a chance to go to the Super Bowl with Vick at QB.

How can that be a smoke screen. Vick wins games. As a Falcons fan watching the entire season. I have seen the Falcons coaching staff go from Mike stay in the system pass the ball check down to the next guy......Now the mood is run Mike make plays there are only 2 games left...... That may be a good formula to win a super bowl......get to the playoffs and then take the blinders off.... We will see.... Good luck to all Eagles fans!!!
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Postby eaglesrule » Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:21 am

well it was posited that the atlanta special teams was better than the eagles -- which is why I was sarcastic, as kicking is part of special teams.

"I said it was their "defensive weakness", meaning that if they are going to get hurt on defense, it will be via the run, not the pass. That matches up well with how Atlanta can hurt them."

This is a logical fallacy though. Just because something is a "weakness" relative to the other -- meaning yea, the rush defense is weaker realtively to the pass defense of the eagles, doesn't mean it is some deficiency of theirs either. You think because the eagles aren't as good against the run as the pass, and since atlanta runs, therefore you have a "weakness" to exploit -- but thatr is a logical jump. It is the more likely scenario than winning through the air -- but that doesn't mean it is in fact a likely scenario at all.

we shall see tomorroqw. but if anyone really thinks vick and dunn present some bruising quality to the run game, please rethink that.

again, maybe dunn and duckett didn;t break all sorts of long runs, but vick certainly has -- and that is more to the point.


Interestingly, the assertation that the atlanta front four is better because of sack totals (totals shown to be a little false -- by the home versus away discrepancy) is wacky. I guess it never occured to anyone that the pressure simon and kearse bring, and the matchup problems they create, allow the rest of the d to do its thing?
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:05 pm

Demented Avenger wrote:
Demented Avenger wrote:The Eagles' return unit isn't better.


Look at the numbers. Atlanta is better at returning punts, the Eagles at returning kick offs. So, no Atlanta is not a better return unit than the Eagles. Then when you consider the Eagles have a better kicker and a better return coverage, that could only swing things in the Eagles favor on returns, not atlanta's.
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Re: Vick Factor

Postby maddog60 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:08 pm

e-man wrote:Last year 4 wins without Vick....This year playing for a chance to go to the Super Bowl with Vick at QB.

How can that be a smoke screen. Vick wins games. As a Falcons fan watching the entire season. I have seen the Falcons coaching staff go from Mike stay in the system pass the ball check down to the next guy......Now the mood is run Mike make plays there are only 2 games left...... That may be a good formula to win a super bowl......get to the playoffs and then take the blinders off.... We will see.... Good luck to all Eagles fans!!!


And the Rams never lose when Marshall Faulk gets 25 carries. You going to tell me the Rams should just start off each game with 25 dives to Faulk?

With so many changes to the team this year, you can't without providing any proof credit those victories to Michael Vick who has been playing poorly enough to make Quincy Carter look good.
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Postby Fantasy-Sports-Forum » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:12 pm

I think the Falcons Eagles game will be fun to watch. I think Eagles win by a fieldgoal. The Patriots Steelers game is going to be the REAL superbowl though. I love the Patriots in this one.
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Postby eaglesrule » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:40 pm

btw, everyone thinks "vick comes up big" and then point to lambaeu two years ago. does anyoen actually look at the stats or how that game went?

he passed for like 120 and ran for 60. Farve had two picks and a fumble lost. The packers also screwed up a punt, which the falcons recovered, and had another punt blocked.

vick didn't go in and will his team to win.
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