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S. Moss, L. Coles, A. Boldin

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Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:13 pm

JimmyChoi wrote:I do not want the jets to get Randy Moss!!!!!!!!!!!Two first round picks and a defensive starter....noooooo thankssssss.......I think our new oc will better utilize the talent we have.....personally, I think McCarin s will benefit more from Heimerdinger(sp?) than Moss will ..but we'll see...


I think that the jets can afford to lose a defensive starter. The addition of Randy Moss would completely open up the offense, especially for the running game. Curtis would break more long runs if Randy plays for the Jets.
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Postby LT Blue Colt » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:32 pm

mtryanks12 wrote:
LT Blue Colt wrote:Can we throw Roy Williams into this too? I agree those are some good sleepers that people might find very surprising next year. But, I sure hope to see Roy be as big of a target next year as he was this year. As long as he can stay away from the injuries he should be O.K. Last year's numbers seemed to drop later in the year, but if you watch him, his was never back to 100%, like the start of the year. But, that's the thing with WR's, there's so many that could come up surprising.


IF Joey Harrington goes with the vertical passign game (when they pass), roy coulkd be a nice sleeper, and sort of a mini issac bruce. although with charles rogers back at #1, he will decrease in value, and with kevin jones, they'll probably 60:40 playcall in favor of the run, so I don't see why he'd be all that bater next year.


Well it's hard to say. I mean if you follow the Lions, as much as any Detroit fan does, then you know, the Lions have some amazing young offensive talent. And you're right, the "ifs", "ands," and "buts" come quite a bit with young players. I guess if I was to lay my "Lion theory" out on the table, I would see that Roy has size, decent speed, and can jump. Which leads me to believe even if he is #2 next year, his numbers are going to show #1. Charles is a speed guy, and I don't think Joey has enough to give him the long balls he's going to be looking for. The Lions love the short passing game. West Coast offense, go figure, right? And Roy is what they need for those short pass plays. Especially near the endzone! Hint,hint! Remember that guys, when you're looking for a good endzone receiver next year. But, Kevin Jones, he's good and really stepped it up near the end of the year, so I wouldn't doubt that if the Lions form some sort of running game. It won't flow quite as well as a team like PIT. or the NYJ. Team's will snuff it out, and pressure will be placed back at the passing game, which is where so many "ifs" come into play with the Lions. Will next year's passing game be up to par when the pressures on? :-?

Oh, Boy that was a lot to say. Trust me, I could probably go on and on about the Lions. Don't worry I know there's a forum for that. I know, I go there quite frequently. ;-D
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Postby skibrett15 » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:08 pm

In the last few weeks of the season with Ramsey starting, Gardner had little action. Ramsey looked to Coles early and often. Lav coles has excellent after the catch potential, so I see him as being capable of 6 tds or so.
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Postby Mercer Boy » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:10 pm

DisgruntledJetsFan wrote:
JimmyChoi wrote:I do not want the jets to get Randy Moss!!!!!!!!!!!Two first round picks and a defensive starter....noooooo thankssssss.......I think our new oc will better utilize the talent we have.....personally, I think McCarin s will benefit more from Heimerdinger(sp?) than Moss will ..but we'll see...


I think that the jets can afford to lose a defensive starter. The addition of Randy Moss would completely open up the offense, especially for the running game. Curtis would break more long runs if Randy plays for the Jets.


Randy's best suited as a long threat...I know Penny's shoulder was junk all of last year, but can he sufficiently "chunk" the ball down to him like Daunte does? Would he be less effective playing on grass/in cold weather? Domes are pretty friendly to WR's due to the lack of wind, speediness of turf, and perfect temperatures.

Or, an even better question...will the Jets offense allow it to happen? I suppose if they did get them they would have to make preparations for Moss.

I think they should be OK with Moss and McCareins; they don't need Moss to win. They were highly competitive with the top teams last year (almost/should have made it to the championship game), and they played in the toughest division in football. With a fully healthy Pennington and a little riskier playbook they will do just as good or better than last year.
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Postby cruiz03 » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:34 pm

This has become a good post.

I like some of the opinions regarding the future of S. Moss in the new offense and hopefully Penny's arm will hold up the entire season with a more aggressive playbook. All I know is that his numbers can't get any worse. Until Carter came in half way through the season, Moss was worthless.

Someone said that Coles will have like 90 catches, 1050 and 4tds. I agree that they will be focused on the run, however, they can't run the ball 50 plus times a game. Remember they do have a good defense that will allow the offense to stay on the field often. The 90 catches are solid but until this year, he has never averaged less than 14ypc. I can see him back up to 1150 yrds and near 7 tds. ;-D

R. Williams to me is one of the best young WR's that will become the next TO. If he only had a QB with half a brain.
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Postby JimmyChoi » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:56 am

Im still not buying it......
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Postby Kensat30 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:03 pm

All three situations hinge on one thing: QB.

1) Boldin- is the most "stud-like" WR of the three. Fully healthy, he's the guy I see as most likely to break into the 1300/10 range. That's IF they get a veteran QB and IF Fitzgerald doesn't turn into an 80 catch WR next year. Boldin has so much raw talent that he will get decent numbers no matter what Fitzgerald or the QB situation evolves into so I would feel most comfortable counting on him as an every week WR play. Also of note, Boldin has moved back into the slot WR role (rookie season position) after changing positions in his injured sophmore campaign.
Lot of IFs in Boldin's equation, but definitely a high upside guy you might be able to pickup in the 6th round or above.

2) Coles- the most proven of the 3. Coles is virtually guaranteed to put up 1,000 yards and will probably go back to scoring 4-6 touchdowns next season as well. Coles has the talent to put up 1300 yards but his QB situation in Washington is not looking especially good. One positive thing to note is that Rod Gardner is most likely departing town and Coles may see even more looks in 2005 if that's possible (2nd in NFL in targets behind Chad Johnson in 2004). One thing to worry about with Coles is his injury history. He has chosen not to receive surgery to a toe that he injured 2 seasons ago and it has plagued him off and on since that time. Still a good value WR to pickup in the 7th round or above.

3) S.Moss- Not a guy I'm high on in 2005. Pennington has proven to be nothing more than a highly efficient fantasy top15 QB. Think Tom Brady without the occasional big game... S.Moss has the talent to put up 1300/10, but he won't ever see that number again in New York with Pennington as QB. With McCarreins in town, Moss is not going to see enough passes (especially the deep ball that he needs to boost his stats) to ever warrant a week in week out starting role. Very frustrating WR to own IMO. I wouldn't spend anything more than an 8th round or higher pick on the guy and chances are someone remembering 2003 will grab him in the 5th.
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Postby Sixxgunn » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:14 pm

I can't bring myself to believe that S.Moss will ever get close to what he did 2 years ago.I did however fall into that trap this past season and drafted him a bit high,and paid for it.Boldin was a different story.I had a real feeling about him,and despite his injury,he put up pretty decent numbers.He can only get better next year,and probably reach 85 or so catches,and 6-8 TD's,with the possibility of more if Fitz goes into a sophomore slump/gets injured.That's probably good enough for a #1 if you have a good all-around solid team.I've never been high on Coles,but if Ramsey can manage to stay the starter,he can turn out to be a decent #2 in my opinion.
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Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:47 pm

Mercer Boy wrote:I think they should be OK with Moss and McCareins; they don't need Moss to win. They were highly competitive with the top teams last year (almost/should have made it to the championship game), and they played in the toughest division in football. With a fully healthy Pennington and a little riskier playbook they will do just as good or better than last year.


But if the Jets had a stronger offense last year, then they might not have had to rely on Doug Brien to win the game against the steelers. With Randy Moss, I think the Jets could be SO much better. It takes the pressure off the D to make big stops and it also allows Curtis and Lamont to open up the running game, breaking longer runs.

Of course Randy Moss to the Jets hurts both Santana's and Randy's fantasy value. Santana becomes more of a 2-4 catch per game guy and Randy wont put up the kind of yards he has in the past.

If Randy Moss goes to the Jets:

Randy Moss: 1300 yards, 90 catches, 10 TDs

Santana Moss: 800 yards, 55 catches 6 TDs
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Postby LT Blue Colt » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:03 pm

Kensat30 wrote:All three situations hinge on one thing: QB.

1) Boldin- is the most "stud-like" WR of the three. Fully healthy, he's the guy I see as most likely to break into the 1300/10 range. That's IF they get a veteran QB and IF Fitzgerald doesn't turn into an 80 catch WR next year. Boldin has so much raw talent that he will get decent numbers no matter what Fitzgerald or the QB situation evolves into so I would feel most comfortable counting on him as an every week WR play. Also of note, Boldin has moved back into the slot WR role (rookie season position) after changing positions in his injured sophmore campaign.
Lot of IFs in Boldin's equation, but definitely a high upside guy you might be able to pickup in the 6th round or above.

2) Coles- the most proven of the 3. Coles is virtually guaranteed to put up 1,000 yards and will probably go back to scoring 4-6 touchdowns next season as well. Coles has the talent to put up 1300 yards but his QB situation in Washington is not looking especially good. One positive thing to note is that Rod Gardner is most likely departing town and Coles may see even more looks in 2005 if that's possible (2nd in NFL in targets behind Chad Johnson in 2004). One thing to worry about with Coles is his injury history. He has chosen not to receive surgery to a toe that he injured 2 seasons ago and it has plagued him off and on since that time. Still a good value WR to pickup in the 7th round or above.

3) S.Moss- Not a guy I'm high on in 2005. Pennington has proven to be nothing more than a highly efficient fantasy top15 QB. Think Tom Brady without the occasional big game... S.Moss has the talent to put up 1300/10, but he won't ever see that number again in New York with Pennington as QB. With McCarreins in town, Moss is not going to see enough passes (especially the deep ball that he needs to boost his stats) to ever warrant a week in week out starting role. Very frustrating WR to own IMO. I wouldn't spend anything more than an 8th round or higher pick on the guy and chances are someone remembering 2003 will grab him in the 5th.


You sure did hit that nail on the head. ;-D
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