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Article on Michael Irvin getting snubbed.

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Postby Goatwhacker » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:45 pm

bagobonez wrote:
Excellent post. Behavior is not supposed to affect the voters' decisions either. Like I've said, it's not the "Good Citizens of America Hall of Fame" it's the "PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame" and fact is that few WR's in the history of the game were as good as Irvin. I don't really see an argument at all that stands to keep Irvin out of the Hall.


I did a little research, and this is what the HOF says in it's guidelines for selection:

"The only criteria for selection to the Pro Football Hall of Fame is a nominee's achievement and contribution as a player or coach or contributor."

You could read this as you do, as whatever happens on the field is important, everything else is not. Or you could look at the word "contribution". Was Irvin's drug use a positive or negative contribution to the NFL? What if Rae Carruth decided to off his pregnant girlfriend at the end of a HOF-type career instead of the beginning? Should he still get in? What if Mark Chmura had been found guilty of child molestation and he'd had a HOF-quality career?

I'm not saying Irvin's misdeeds were of that caliber, but I do think the argument that one's off-field behavior means nothing at all is a little simplistic. A player can harm the NFL by his behavior and that should be a factor.
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Postby eaglesrule » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:01 pm

ok, then lets take oj out of the hall of fame.

I hear the distinction you are making -- if you think of what he did as a sort of negative contribution -- detraction -- then it should be considered. He did put a black mark on the eye of the nfl in terms of his off-field behavior.

But the standard seems to be applied selectively. And a little drugs and prostuitutes aren't the end of the world by NFL standards.

the more I think about it, the more it is a sham. He should be in.
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:18 pm

eaglesrule wrote:ok, then lets take oj out of the hall of fame.

I hear the distinction you are making -- if you think of what he did as a sort of negative contribution -- detraction -- then it should be considered. He did put a black mark on the eye of the nfl in terms of his off-field behavior.

But the standard seems to be applied selectively. And a little drugs and prostuitutes aren't the end of the world by NFL standards.

the more I think about it, the more it is a sham. He should be in.


Exactly. If behavior's a reason to keep someone out, how did OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor get in? (Or did OJ get in before he killed those people?)
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Postby eaglesrule » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:24 pm

oj simpson had to be in before -- that was what? 1994 he did that?

at any rate -- it seems intentionally vague enough of a criteria to keep out unliked people.

its kind of like the whole mvp debate -- it is vague on purpose I think.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:33 pm

My reasoning is simple: If Monk is not a Hall of Famer, Irvin is not.
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Postby Goatwhacker » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:36 pm

eaglesrule wrote:ok, then lets take oj out of the hall of fame.



Sounds good to me, I doubt the HOF is very happy to have his bust in there. He was found "not guilty" though in the criminal case so it would be tough to get him out.
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Postby mutantseabass » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:55 pm

bagobonez wrote:
eaglesrule wrote:ok, then lets take oj out of the hall of fame.

I hear the distinction you are making -- if you think of what he did as a sort of negative contribution -- detraction -- then it should be considered. He did put a black mark on the eye of the nfl in terms of his off-field behavior.

But the standard seems to be applied selectively. And a little drugs and prostuitutes aren't the end of the world by NFL standards.

the more I think about it, the more it is a sham. He should be in.


Exactly. If behavior's a reason to keep someone out, how did OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor get in? (Or did OJ get in before he killed those people?)


OJ didnt kill anyone ;-)
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Postby eaglesrule » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:34 pm

he was found guilty in a civil court though...
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:26 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:My reasoning is simple: If Monk is not a Hall of Famer, Irvin is not.


Yet you provide no argument as to why you think this way.
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