tpetty6320 wrote: goleafsgo96 wrote:
tpetty6320 wrote:and by the way, what is your idea 'maddog' for what is mediocre. i think being 2-2 in your first two years in the playoffs, two winning seasons, and winning your division your second full year in the league is above average........
maddogs talking about the QB, not the team. Does a QB influence the team? yes. Is the QB the team? No.
in atlanta i say more than usual. vick changes the whole attitude and tempo of the offense and defense. remember last year when he got injured? everyone played awful. i am not saying he is the best in the history of the NFL but he is definitely not mediocre. how else can you explain the win ratio while he is in versus being on the sidelines for the last 3 years????????
goleafsgo was right, I was referring to Vick not just the team. As a whole team Atlanta is quite good, but many times that team had to try to win in spite of Vick's ineptitude to score points (not even a TD against a porous Arizona defense).
I'll give atlanta that Vick is their best QB available, no doubt about that, but he isn't the difference why they missed the playoffs last year and had a bye this year. The difference is in their defense. If you look at how their defense played last year compared to the year before when they made the playoffs, and even this year, you find the defense played crappy all of 2003. Then if you look at cases when the starting franchise QB gets injured for the season, you find there is no correlation between how well the defense plays and whether or not the QB is injured. (I'd provide the link to this information, but I dont feel like digging it up, so if you really want it, let me know and I'll find it).
Also, I define mediocre as such:
Daunte Culpepper MIN 110.9
Donovan McNabb PHI 104.7
Brian Griese TB 97.5
Marc Bulger STL 93.7
Brett Favre GB 92.4
Jake Delhomme CAR 87.3
Kurt Warner NYG 86.5
Matt Hasselbeck SEA 83.1
Brad Johnson TB 79.5
Aaron Brooks NO 79.5
Tim Rattay SF 78.1
Michael Vick ATL 78.1
All of these guys were starters for their team (or slated as such to begin the season in Brad Johnson's case). Out of 16 NFC teams, 10 NFC teams had a QB who played better football than Vick did. That's actually below average play on his part, and it has no place getting the honor that is supposed to go along with a Pro Bowl. Then again, the Pro Bowl is more of a popularity contest, otherwise how can you explain the exclusion of players like Donnie Edwards this year.