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Vick Overrated?

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Vick Overrated?

Postby Bennett4prez » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:22 pm

Can everyone just agree that no, Vick, is not overrated. There is still talk about how overrated he is, but most places I've seen have him 7th or 8th in the QB rankings. Yeah, he doesn't do that much with his crapload of WR, but you can't ignore what he does with his feet. How is a consensus ranking of 8th make this guy overrated? I'm so sick of his bashers.
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Re: Vick Overrated?

Postby Mercer Boy » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:32 pm

Bennett4Prez wrote:Can everyone just agree that no, Vick, is not overrated. There is still talk about how overrated he is, but most places I've seen have him 7th or 8th in the QB rankings. Yeah, he doesn't do that much with his crapload of WR, but you can't ignore what he does with his feet. How is a consensus ranking of 8th make this guy overrated? I'm so sick of his bashers.

Yeah, he's 8th best, but he's still taken in the 3rd round. This is what makes no sense to me. If he'd just get selected with the people in his class of fantasy QB (Bulger - although he's better than this, Brooks, etc.) in the 5th or 6th round, I don't think anyone (even me) would complain.
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Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:41 pm

I agree with Mercer about him being taken in the 3rd round. He should be taken around the same time other quarterbacks in his range are taken. I won't deny that Vick is a very talented quarterback and has all the phyisical tools to be one of the top three quarterbacks in the league, however he does need more recievers to throw the ball to. Just having a good tight end isn't enough.
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Postby deluxe_247 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:42 pm

if you want to know why people like me bash him...read the other 5000 vick debate posts that have been posted in the last 6 months.
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Postby Trainer of Dolphins » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:55 pm

Vicks potential causes people to hope and wish for better than he deliverrs plus everyone on ESPN tells us he is a great fantasy QB, so he gets drafted higher than people who score as many fantasy points as he does. Basically if your not Manning, Culpepper, or McNabb your in the same league as alot of other qbs in the league fantasy wise
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Re: Vick Overrated?

Postby maddog60 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:38 pm

Bennett4Prez wrote:Can everyone just agree that no, Vick, is not overrated. There is still talk about how overrated he is, but most places I've seen have him 7th or 8th in the QB rankings. Yeah, he doesn't do that much with his crapload of WR, but you can't ignore what he does with his feet. How is a consensus ranking of 8th make this guy overrated? I'm so sick of his bashers.


Overrated in terms of football or fantasy football?

In the NFL he's the most overrated player hands down.

In fantasy football, I think he'll see quite a bit of a fall from his 1st-2nd round, and may finally not be overrated for a change. However as someone that spent a good deal of time defending this year that McNabb, not Vick, should have been the consensus #3 QB, I really don't really care to here arguments about his potential that I've heard for what, 4 years now?
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Postby joshyboy72 » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:25 am

He's not really "overrated" persay fantasy wise, but more "over-hyped" if you will. I don't know it just seems people take him so early because they think this will be his year or something, ya know he'll suddenly become a good passer and rush for 1,000 yards and have a million touchdowns or something. And they're always wrong. But since those are always fantasy football noobs, you can't say he's overrated since the people who know what they're doing don't take him that early.

But seriously, in the Extremely Early Mock, with Bulger as my quarterback and a weak running back core, I snagged Vick in the 8th round (to use one of my quarterbacks as trade bait if they both started having great seasons) And I got bashed for that...which is too much.

Too many people must hold grudges against him I suppose. He's worth more than anyone here, probably gets all the ladies, and is one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL [i]to have on your team.[i] And I assume he's definitely screwed over many people here fantasy-wise before. Although I'd rank him as maybe the 10th quarterback overall, taking him in the 8th round when maybe 12 or 13 quarterbacks had gone already doesn't deserve negative comments. 3rd round, does.

But I don't understand how he's the most overrated player in the NFL, maddog. Who the hell can chuck the ball 80 yards with a flick of the wrist, make any defense shiver no matter how long of a 3rd or 4th down it is, and make plays with his feet no matter how long he has to make it. Maybe as a starting quarterback he's overrated a bit but in the clutch the only guy I'd give it to over him is Peyton Manning, maybe CPep, that's it.

And I'm not even a Michael Vick fan. Actually, as a diehard Saints fan, I despise the guy and how his cousin is 100 times worse and can't do shit for us. !+)
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:10 pm

joshyboy72 wrote:But I don't understand how he's the most overrated player in the NFL, maddog.


He made the Pro Bowl despite the fact that 10 other NFC teams had starting QBs with better QB ratings. Kurt Warner had a better QB rating, as did Vick's cousin, Brooks. The QB rating may not be entirely accurate, but its much more comprehensive and accurate gauge of how a QB played than calling a guy "magical" the ESPN crew did when justifying Vick's selection to the Pro Bowl.

Who the hell can chuck the ball 80 yards with a flick of the wrist,


I have two problems with the arm strength argument:

1) Does anyone actually know for sure how strong his arm is in comparison to other QBs in the NFL? I always hear Vick supports claiming how amazing his arm strength is, but I never see any cold hart facts proving just how strong it is. If you can link to a study that shows this, that would be great, otherwise your point is an assumption.

2) It doesn't matter how hard he can throw the ball, if it doesn't arrive on target. Let him chuck it at 100 mph, but it hits the defender square in the chest, not his receiver, its a bad throw. For example, I recall watching the second Carolina/Atlanta game this year and after Vick threw a pass that went right to a defender who dropped the ball, the announcers were complimenting Vick on throwing a ball so hard that no one could've caught it. If no one could've caught it, it either was a bad pass because its going to be incomplete, or should have been throw to the sidelines, not over the middle. Accuracy trumps arm strength every time, and Vick lacks the accuracy.

make any defense shiver no matter how long of a 3rd or 4th down it is,


Yes, he certainly made Arizona's defense shiver. Again, you're exaggerating. He has an added ability for picking up 3rd and shorts on his own, but his lack of passing skill allows defenses to stack more men in the box, play man coverage practically all day and not worry, thus allowing them to compensate for Atlanta's running attack even more.

and make plays with his feet no matter how long he has to make it.


He's a QB, he needs to make plays with his arm. If he can't develop into an NFL level passer, make him a RB and get a real QB.

Also, for someone that makes plays with his feet, he lacks a fundamental part of football. I'm not talking about learning a new system, I'm talking about a fundamental basic technique of playing football that all skill players should know by instinct coming out of highschool, but after 4 years in the NFL Vick still doesn't have this technique down pat. It's called, ball protection.

Look at how he holds the ball when he's scrambling. In one hand, away from his body, about waist high. So, he's not threatening to pass from that position like most scrambling QBs do. People rushing at him can automatically play the run instead of being afraid he'll pass. It also makes it easier for pass rushers to cause a fumble. Vick's 16 fumbles this season weren't all due to great defensive play, they were helped, by his carelessness with the ball.

Maybe as a starting quarterback he's overrated


Perhaps you misunderstood me. As a QB, he is overrated. I'm not saying he's not a great athlete, which he certainly is, but being a great athlete does not automatically translate into being a great NFL player. And Vick is not a top 3 QB, he is a below average starter, and going to be a 5th year veteran who still hasn't lived up to expectations or played better than mediocre, yet gets accolades from the entire sports media, and that makes him overrated.
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Postby Azrael » Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:05 pm

He is overrated by the media. He makes one or two electrifying plays a game but he sucks at throwing the ball. His accuracy isn't very good and when he does hit guys he sometimes throws the ball too hard. Every pass doesn't have to be a laser and it's sometimes better it isn't.

A well coached defense with above average talent will be able to not just slow him down but shut him down. Tampa does this historically. If you can commit to stopping their running game and your pass rushers are disciplined Atlanta is very easily stopped. Cripes, they only beat like 2 teams with a winning record this year and lost a couple games they shouldn't have (KC, Detroit), even Arizona gave them fits at home. They had the best rushing offense in the league but played probably the easiest schedule for teams who made the playoffs.

For fantasy he's not overrated, we don't have him rated that high to begin with. We know he's not the consistent stat hog you need at QB.
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Postby UNDEFEATED » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:35 am

He was the 13th ranked QB in my league. 25/6 Passing TD 10/6 Running TD. I would not draft him before the 6th round. Not much value selecting him before then. ESpecially with the emergence of their Running game.

8 games below 10 points is junk. 5 games with 6 points or less. CR@@@@@P.

10 games with 16 points or less. UG-LEEEEEEE.

6 games with 20 points or more. How do you play matchups with him?

I will even give you the 16 point game. So 7 games with 16 point or more. That still means he is not even reliable HALF the time you started him last season. Not the type of consistency i am looking for to win my league.

As a matter of fact. How many of you won your leagues with MIKE VICK in your starting roster? Guy with Vick in my league finished second to last. BTW i won that league with Carr/Collins as my QB for the entire season.
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