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Dolphins shopping #2 pick around plus Surtain/KC trade talk

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Postby proKrastinate » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:49 pm

its obvious they are trying to trade down, but so are the niners and I haven't seen (or atleast heard) of anything regarding them finding someone who is willing. how much easier would it be for the phins to trade out of #2 than the niners out of #1?
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Postby maddog60 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:16 am

Oh how I hope the Eagles are paying close attention. I've been hoping to see that Miami will trade down, because I think the best moves the birds can make is trading up and drafting Mike Williams. Originally, I thought this could be done with Tennessee, but with Gruden's interest in Williams, they've got to go higher, and #2 would all but assure it. Maybe they can offload Simon on Miami while they're at it.

Oh, if KC got Surtain for a 3rd rounder it would be amazing for them.
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Postby proKrastinate » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:06 am

But I thought that KC didn't have a third rounder? Atleast that is what I read somewhere. The only 3rd rounder they have is a compensation pick or whatever, and you can't trade those.
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Postby Plindsey88 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:00 am

You can't trade a compensatory pick once you have earned it?

I thought you could...

I thought you could not trade a compensatory pick before it was set, in other words, if Chicago owed a pick to Carolina (for example) contingent upon the performance of Mushin Muhammed in the 2005 season, then Carolina could not broker that potential pick into a deal before the end of the 2005 season, however after the 2005 season, once the pick was earned and set, they could...

Am I wrong about that?
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:53 am

Plindsey88 wrote:You can't trade a compensatory pick once you have earned it?

I thought you could...

I thought you could not trade a compensatory pick before it was set, in other words, if Chicago owed a pick to Carolina (for example) contingent upon the performance of Mushin Muhammed in the 2005 season, then Carolina could not broker that potential pick into a deal before the end of the 2005 season, however after the 2005 season, once the pick was earned and set, they could...

Am I wrong about that?


That's a conditional pick you're describing. If a player underperforms there can be a clause in his contract that gives the underperforming team a draft pick from the team that traded the player(round determined in the contract).

Example: the Niners received that O-lineman from the Eagles for Terrell Owens. Because the lineman only played in 2 games and ended up on the IR, based on wording in the contract, the Eagles have to forfeit up a 5th round pick to the Niners I believe.
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Compensatory picks are mainly due to losses in the free agent market and are given by the league. Compensatory picks increase the number of total picks in the draft, while conditional picks do not. This year due to compensatory picks there are 100+ first day draft picks, the most in a long time IIRC.

Say a team lost 3 players to FA last year and brought in only 2 FA players, they would receive 1 compensatory draft pick due to the net loss and they can't trade it. The pick is valued based on the monetary value that the lost free agents signed for, obviously the higher the contract values the higher the draft picks. I believe the Titan's netted a third rounder for Javon Kearse because they had a negative FA loss and Kearse signed a huge contract.

Another way to receive a compensatory pick is because of a league screwup. The Raven's received a compensatory pick for the Terrell Owens fiasco because their trade with the Niners had to be reversed by the league.
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Postby Free Bagel » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:08 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
Plindsey88 wrote:You can't trade a compensatory pick once you have earned it?

I thought you could...

I thought you could not trade a compensatory pick before it was set, in other words, if Chicago owed a pick to Carolina (for example) contingent upon the performance of Mushin Muhammed in the 2005 season, then Carolina could not broker that potential pick into a deal before the end of the 2005 season, however after the 2005 season, once the pick was earned and set, they could...

Am I wrong about that?


That's a conditional pick you're describing. If a player underperforms there can be a clause in his contract that gives the underperforming team a draft pick from the team that traded the player(round determined in the contract).

Example: the Niners received that O-lineman from the Eagles for Terrell Owens. Because the lineman only played in 2 games and ended up on the IR, based on wording in the contract, the Eagles have to forfeit up a 5th round pick to the Niners I believe.
----

Compensatory picks are mainly due to losses in the free agent market and are given by the league. Compensatory picks increase the number of total picks in the draft, while conditional picks do not. This year due to compensatory picks there are 100+ first day draft picks, the most in a long time IIRC.

Say a team lost 3 players to FA last year and brought in only 2 FA players, they would receive 1 compensatory draft pick due to the net loss and they can't trade it. The pick is valued based on the monetary value that the lost free agents signed for, obviously the higher the contract values the higher the draft picks. I believe the Titan's netted a third rounder for Javon Kearse because they had a negative FA loss and Kearse signed a huge contract.

Another way to receive a compensatory pick is because of a league screwup. The Raven's received a compensatory pick for the Terrell Owens fiasco because their trade with the Niners had to be reversed by the league.


Interesting stuff ;-D. I had heard of teams giving up extra picks in a trade based on good performance, had never heard of them doing it based on underperforming though. These sports agents think of everything when it comes to trades nowadays..
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Postby MadScott » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:36 pm

The Dolphins are definitely in a precarious position having mortgaged the future by trading draft picks for unproven players and crapping out as well as acquire older, salary cap heavy vets. If I'm not mistaken, they are with out either a 2nd or 3rd rd. pick if not both this year and possibly next. Simply, they are trying to trade down and gather picks. I'm sure they would be happy with any of the top 3 RBs projected in the first rd.

Surtain is a talent to be sure, at least one of the top 5 at his position, arguablly even top 3 but he's going to command big dollars.
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