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Postby FF Newbie » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:21 pm

That's one he'll wish he had back. What you said is ridiculous, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they "deserve" all 3 championships or compare them to the Cowboys or 49ers dynasties. What happened is they had good, but not great teams and got extremely lucky not once or twice, but all three times they were in the Super Bowl. Think about it, they really should not have won any of the 3 super bowls they've played in, much less all of them.
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Postby TTTBone » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:27 pm

FF Newbie wrote:That's one he'll wish he had back.

You just bored B4P, or what? :-?
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Postby mtryanks12 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:35 pm

I dislike the Patriots greatly, but the one thing I truly admire about them is how good Bill Belickeck is. He must be an amazing guy to get his whole team to reconstruct their deals for they have a low salary but a high signing bonus, which helps the salary cap a ton. I persoanlly admire how he does his business, and I think it's perfectly fine that they work with the salary cap efficently and effictevely, and it sure shows out on the field.
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Postby portisfan24 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:43 pm

What are you talking about? Offhand I can think of a few guys we have cut because they cost too much. Lawyer Milloy, Ted Washington, Ty Law. Those are some pretty big names to be cutting. Sure we manipulate the cap, but its not too bad when we are cutting guys like that.
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Postby mtryanks12 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:44 pm

I agree. Belicheck is never hesitant to cut his major guys, even if they're truly amazing. ANd it seems to work out pretty well.
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Postby Flux » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:59 pm

I honestly dont see how you think they manipulate the salary cap. Someone in this thread mentioned that its b/c of big signing bonuses, but signing bonuses are spread out and counted as cap space over the duration of the contract.

The only way you can get more for your money is by backloading a contract. But the player and his agent would be aware of this and realize it is unlikely that they will see the end of that contract b/c they will either be cut or asked to redo it.

As for players taking less money than they should, that is nothing more than saying that the organization has great coaches, a great front office, and great people all around. Why else would someone want to take less? And actually for Bruschi, he saved a good deal of money himself by not dishing out huge percents to an agent since he represented himself.



Heres some decent info on the cap http://www.afl.atfreeweb.com/AFL/NFL%20Salary%20Cap%20101.htm

I really would like an answer on how exactly they are manipulating it, and are doing it in a way that no other team is doing
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Postby mtryanks12 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:32 pm

The signing bonus does have an effect on the salary cap, but it can decrease the amount of cap room the player takes up if they have a small contract but a huge signing bonus. Anyone who plays madden would know this. When you sign players, you save a ton of cap room when signing free agents if you decrease the salary and increase the signing bonus. It's the same way in the NFL.
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Postby maddog60 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:55 pm

So, the Pats are just as bad as the Yankees because Tom Brady isn't as greedy as Peyton Manning? That's essentially a fair analogy to make from your argument. And its bs.

In baseball, the Yankees win, because they get the best talent, because they can pay single players about the same as some teams' entire roster. If said player told the Yankees, sorry, but I'll play for less on <insert team here> because I want to play with them, they'd be applauded for it. It'd be a smack in the face to the "evil empire" that has forced baseball to desperately need a hard cap. However, you're now comparing that same behavior in football to being unfair. That just doesnt work logically.
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Postby mtryanks12 » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:10 pm

maddog60 wrote:So, the Pats are just as bad as the Yankees because Tom Brady isn't as greedy as Peyton Manning? That's essentially a fair analogy to make from your argument. And its bs.

In baseball, the Yankees win, because they get the best talent, because they can pay single players about the same as some teams' entire roster. If said player told the Yankees, sorry, but I'll play for less on <insert team here> because I want to play with them, they'd be applauded for it. It'd be a smack in the face to the "evil empire" that has forced baseball to desperately need a hard cap. However, you're now comparing that same behavior in football to being unfair. That just doesnt work logically.


did you direct that to me or to the creator of the thread??
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Postby Flux » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:59 pm

mtryanks12 wrote:The signing bonus does have an effect on the salary cap, but it can decrease the amount of cap room the player takes up if they have a small contract but a huge signing bonus. Anyone who plays madden would know this. When you sign players, you save a ton of cap room when signing free agents if you decrease the salary and increase the signing bonus. It's the same way in the NFL.


Ill believe you if you explain to me how....

Look, if you sign a guy for 5 years at $1 million a year, and a $10 million signing bonus, he will count for $3 million a year on your cap. That would be his $1 million salary plus his prorated signing bonus of $2 million a year.

How does that actually save you more money than just signing the guy for $3 million a year?
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