Plaxico's place in the 2nd tier? - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Plaxico's place in the 2nd tier?

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby Kensat30 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:41 am

mtryanks12 wrote:
MadScott wrote:Well put Kensat. Ward is a catching machine, quite possibly the best all around WR in the NFL.

Simply put, Ward's value and Plax's value are both going to heavily depend on how much maturation has occurred in this offseason by their respective QBs. Ward is definitely in a different class than Plax is however.


What do you mean by "Ward is quite possibly the best all-around receiver in the NFL??" He's very talented, and I hope you meant in terms of talent, not statistical totals or by fantasy numbers. If he had a Manning or C-Pep throwing to him, he'd be amazing, but for now he has Big Ben throwing to him, and he's not the best passer in teh NFL. IO could see him amount around 1200/12 totals next season, but nothing much higher than that. And yes, he is talented.


Ben Roethlisberger had the 5th highest QB rating in 2004, including 67% passing completion and a 9 yards per average... as a rookie/replacement. Seems like a pretty solid QB to me. This guy is not David Carr, he posted more touchdowns with only 13.5 games in 150 less attempts.

Chalk it up to low passing attempts, strong offense around him, high percentage passing situations, whatever. Or you could call Ben one of the "Dan Marino" type QBs that has talent and a knack for producing, even as a rookie. Oh yeah did I mention that he has mobility and can run?

I don't see why Ward can't achieve his best success with this QB under center, compared to say TOMMY MADDOX??? Call me crazy, but I would think that a combination ofBurress/Randel El would cut into Ward's production a lot more than Randel El/Wilson as well. Every piece to the puzzle seems to be lining up in Ward's favor if you ask me.


--------------
(Steeler's 2004)Carolina Panther's 2003, smothering defense, bigtime run game, up and coming Delhomme, Steve Smith #1 WR with veteran #2 Muhammad alongside him, puts up solid top10 numbers.

(Steeler's 2005) Carolina Panther's 2004, defense suffers early, run game suffers early, QB continues to develop, Mushin Muhammad (with inexperienced #2WR starting alongside him) steps in for injured Smith and becomes the #1 fantasy WR.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby mtryanks12 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:49 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
mtryanks12 wrote:
MadScott wrote:Well put Kensat. Ward is a catching machine, quite possibly the best all around WR in the NFL.

Simply put, Ward's value and Plax's value are both going to heavily depend on how much maturation has occurred in this offseason by their respective QBs. Ward is definitely in a different class than Plax is however.


What do you mean by "Ward is quite possibly the best all-around receiver in the NFL??" He's very talented, and I hope you meant in terms of talent, not statistical totals or by fantasy numbers. If he had a Manning or C-Pep throwing to him, he'd be amazing, but for now he has Big Ben throwing to him, and he's not the best passer in teh NFL. IO could see him amount around 1200/12 totals next season, but nothing much higher than that. And yes, he is talented.


Ben Roethlisberger had the 5th highest QB rating in 2004, including 67% passing completion and a 9 yards per average... as a rookie/replacement. Seems like a pretty solid QB to me. This guy is not David Carr, he posted more touchdowns with only 13.5 games in 150 less attempts.

Chalk it up to low passing attempts, strong offense around him, high percentage passing situations, whatever. Or you could call Ben one of the "Dan Marino" type QBs that has talent and a knack for producing, even as a rookie. Oh yeah did I mention that he has mobility and can run?

I don't see why Ward can't achieve his best success with this QB under center, compared to say TOMMY MADDOX??? Call me crazy, but I would think that a combination ofBurress/Randel El would cut into Ward's production a lot more than Randel El/Wilson as well. Every piece to the puzzle seems to be lining up in Ward's favor if you ask me.


--------------
(Steeler's 2004)Carolina Panther's 2003, smothering defense, bigtime run game, up and coming Delhomme, Steve Smith #1 WR with veteran #2 Muhammad alongside him, puts up solid top10 numbers.

(Steeler's 2005) Carolina Panther's 2004, defense suffers early, run game suffers early, QB continues to develop, Mushin Muhammad (with inexperienced #2WR starting alongside him) steps in for injured Smith and becomes the #1 fantasy WR.


Well, he did have a good QB rating and all that, but you also have to remember that Pittsburgh is not in a passing offense. Tehy will run the ball A LOT, and that dents Ward's production, since he isn't ebing looked at a lot.
mtryanks12
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 4671
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Lushcrush » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:00 pm

mtryanks12 wrote:What do you mean by "Ward is quite possibly the best all-around receiver in the NFL??" He's very talented, and I hope you meant in terms of talent, not statistical totals or by fantasy numbers.

To me when people say that Ward is quite possibly (or even undoubtedly) the best all-around receiver in the NFL, it means that he runs good patterns, catches the ball, and will knock your head off on the run. Steeler fans jump right in here if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember a lot of times when Ward would come over to the sideline laughing while he twisted his helmet back on straight after some run block.
The dude will hit ... ;-D
Image
I'm just a little Hawaiian and a homesick Island boy,
I want to go back to my fish and poi ...

[b]2005-2006 VXL Champion[/b]
Lushcrush
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 3055
Joined: 27 May 2002
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Down at the Spanish Moon ...

Postby UNDEFEATED » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:30 pm

FFPlayinMoFo wrote:I think the loss of Burress will hurt the Steelers' offense, but it will help Ward's numbers. He'll be back to putting up 1200-1300 yards and 7-10 TDs


I think i heard...Pitts runs the ball more than 60% of the time.

Wards numbers will be respectable. But not in the elite.

Randle El is going to benefit the most from Plax's departure.

Ward will draw all the dc(double coverage). Have about the same number of pass attempts-targets as last season.

So why should his numbers go up? When there is one less threat for the defense to account for.

The year Maddox and the Steelers pass offense went nuts. Was a complete abberation. They changed their offense for one season. In the beginning of the season. Not during spring training or prior to the regular season. The Steelers caught everyone off-guard.

The following season. Last season. '03. They committed to passing during the off-season. And what happened? They sucked ass. The Steelers Offense including Maddox-Ward-Burress-Da bus...all crapped out.

anyways...Randle El will be the main beneficiary...if anybody will be

Ben is still a #3 Fantasy starter...Not even worth picking up off the WW to develop.
Last edited by UNDEFEATED on Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image Help me earn my Cafe Helper Blinking Ambulance stripes. If you want off the wall thorough answers to your team questions...Hit me up. PM me a link. See you around.
UNDEFEATED
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3890
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Flos Scandelos

Postby MadScott » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:33 pm

Lushcrush wrote:
mtryanks12 wrote:What do you mean by "Ward is quite possibly the best all-around receiver in the NFL??" He's very talented, and I hope you meant in terms of talent, not statistical totals or by fantasy numbers.

To me when people say that Ward is quite possibly (or even undoubtedly) the best all-around receiver in the NFL, it means that he runs good patterns, catches the ball, and will knock your head off on the run. Steeler fans jump right in here if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember a lot of times when Ward would come over to the sideline laughing while he twisted his helmet back on straight after some run block.
The dude will hit ... ;-D


Precisely my point Lushcush. Year in, year out, he's probably one of the top 2-3 blocking WRs in the NFL. I don't have time to look up the link right now, but earlier this year, someone had an article that was posted in the Cafe about who the dirtiest player in the NFL was and Ward's name was right at the top of it. The reason sited, HE HITS, maybe when other's aren't looking but he hits. There's more to be a top WR than just catching balls.
Image
I like simple pleasures, like butter in my ass, lollipops in my mouth. That's just me.
MadScott
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5924
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby deluxe_247 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:40 pm

Lushcrush wrote:
mtryanks12 wrote:What do you mean by "Ward is quite possibly the best all-around receiver in the NFL??" He's very talented, and I hope you meant in terms of talent, not statistical totals or by fantasy numbers.

To me when people say that Ward is quite possibly (or even undoubtedly) the best all-around receiver in the NFL, it means that he runs good patterns, catches the ball, and will knock your head off on the run. Steeler fans jump right in here if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember a lot of times when Ward would come over to the sideline laughing while he twisted his helmet back on straight after some run block.
The dude will hit ... ;-D


i agree....ward is a blocking machine. ive seen him put some serious licks on guys a lot bigger than him too.
Image
deluxe_247
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerBig Sig ChampionMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 15165
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Giggity Giggity

Postby MCG321 » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:57 pm

UNDEFEATED wrote:
FFPlayinMoFo wrote:I think the loss of Burress will hurt the Steelers' offense, but it will help Ward's numbers. He'll be back to putting up 1200-1300 yards and 7-10 TDs


I think i heard...Pitts runs the ball more than 60% of the time.

Wards numbers will be respectable. But not in the elite.

Randle El is going to benefit the most from Plax's departure.

Ward will draw all the dc(double coverage). Have about the same number of pass attempts-targets as last season.

So why should his numbers go up? When there is one less threat for the defense to account for.


Ah, the good ol' "better numbers as only good WR vs. better numbers with another receiving threat on the team".

You can say Plax's talent gives more opportunities for Ward to be single covered, so he's better with him.
I can say Plax's talent causes more passes to go Plax's way, leaving Ward with fewer chances to perform.

Round and round she goes...which is true? Nobody knows.
MCG321
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 2644
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby UNDEFEATED » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:26 am

MCG321 wrote:
UNDEFEATED wrote:
FFPlayinMoFo wrote:I think the loss of Burress will hurt the Steelers' offense, but it will help Ward's numbers. He'll be back to putting up 1200-1300 yards and 7-10 TDs


I think i heard...Pitts runs the ball more than 60% of the time.

Wards numbers will be respectable. But not in the elite.

Randle El is going to benefit the most from Plax's departure.

Ward will draw all the dc(double coverage). Have about the same number of pass attempts-targets as last season.

So why should his numbers go up? When there is one less threat for the defense to account for.


Ah, the good ol' "better numbers as only good WR vs. better numbers with another receiving threat on the team".

You can say Plax's talent gives more opportunities for Ward to be single covered, so he's better with him.
I can say Plax's talent causes more passes to go Plax's way, leaving Ward with fewer chances to perform.

Round and round she goes...which is true? Nobody knows.


yeah this cycle of perception vs perception gets retarded at times.
Image Help me earn my Cafe Helper Blinking Ambulance stripes. If you want off the wall thorough answers to your team questions...Hit me up. PM me a link. See you around.
UNDEFEATED
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3890
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Flos Scandelos

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:27 am

MCG321 wrote:
UNDEFEATED wrote:
FFPlayinMoFo wrote:I think the loss of Burress will hurt the Steelers' offense, but it will help Ward's numbers. He'll be back to putting up 1200-1300 yards and 7-10 TDs


I think i heard...Pitts runs the ball more than 60% of the time.

Wards numbers will be respectable. But not in the elite.

Randle El is going to benefit the most from Plax's departure.

Ward will draw all the dc(double coverage). Have about the same number of pass attempts-targets as last season.

So why should his numbers go up? When there is one less threat for the defense to account for.


Ah, the good ol' "better numbers as only good WR vs. better numbers with another receiving threat on the team".

You can say Plax's talent gives more opportunities for Ward to be single covered, so he's better with him.
I can say Plax's talent causes more passes to go Plax's way, leaving Ward with fewer chances to perform.

Round and round she goes...which is true? Nobody knows.


Tell that to Michael Clayton. Tell that to Anquan Boldin. Tell that to Andre Johnson. I'm under the belief that talented WRs will get the job done under any circumstances if given the chance. You don't need help across from you when you're a great WR.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Previous

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 13:46 hours
(and 36 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact