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Raiders Continue to Shop CB Woodson...

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Postby Trainer of Dolphins » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:06 pm

I think Woodson is basically not movable at this point

1. He makes a ton of $$$ and people who would be interested cant afford it

2. He has some injury history

3. While he has always had talent it hasn't showed up on the field as much as it should in most poeples eyes.

4. He seems to be somewhat of a headcase

I think he is a very good corner, but at the price he is at I dont think anyone wants him for what he will give them in return on the field
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Postby RayVins » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:24 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RayVins wrote:
Evolution wrote:
RayVins wrote:
UNDEFEATED wrote:Don't take my comparison out of context.

They are both NATURALLY TALENTED.

They were both BORN WITH IT.

C'mon.


out of context or not... while buchanon may be naturally fast, you can not copmare this #2 CB who played for oakland to the best golfer ever...


He compared Woodson, not Buchanon.

In any case, both have won things, and if you take the comparison in context, it's true to a degree.


whether he was comparing charles woodson or pat buchanon to tiger woods, it makes no difference...

both are cocky, middle-of-the-road CBs who have had no great accomplishments or the drive that tiger woods has to win. and i dont even like golf...


right there - that alone tells me what I need to know in this argument.

Rayvins thinks Woodson is vastly overrated.

Personally I think he is vastly underrated. I think he is without a doubt a top 5 CB in this league pretty easily - and had injuries not held him back he would quite possibly be the best in the league bar none. As far as great accomplishments go - I guess winning a national championship and the Heisman trophy in college are things one may consider great accomplishments.

This whole argument was based on perception. I agree with Underrated - some players are just born with it - and Woodson certainly would qualify there.

If salary cap issues werent a concern, I would hope the Lions bend over backwards to try and land Woodson.


What has woodson done in the nfl to merit him being a top-5 CB? absolyely nothing...

here are a few CBs better than him:
ty law
patrick surtain
chris mcalister
champ bailey
ronde barber
nate clements

woodson is cocky, demands way too much money for "winning a national championship and the Heisman trophy in college"... in college being the important words here. he thinks oakland should just be throwing him money for his medicore play because he was a high draft choice...

you ask all the people on this board whether charles woodson is overrated or underrated, i guarentee overrated wins because has always been hyped as a shut down corner and has never done anything to prove that...
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Postby CC » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:32 pm

Woodson is not medicore, if I'm starting a team the only corners I take over him are:

Bailey
Surtain
McAlister
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:56 pm

RayVins wrote:What has woodson done in the nfl to merit him being a top-5 CB? absolyely nothing...

here are a few CBs better than him:
ty law
patrick surtain
chris mcalister
champ bailey
ronde barber
nate clements

woodson is cocky, demands way too much money for "winning a national championship and the Heisman trophy in college"... in college being the important words here. he thinks oakland should just be throwing him money for his medicore play because he was a high draft choice...

you ask all the people on this board whether charles woodson is overrated or underrated, i guarentee overrated wins because has always been hyped as a shut down corner and has never done anything to prove that...


Hes also been riddled with injuries, so it really depends on whether or not you factor that in. Some may argue Charles Rogers isnt as good as Bethel Johnson since clearly Johnson has put up much better stats, and I guess if thats the logic they use then so be it. Im not going to change anyones mind since Rogers hasent played much. Its similar to the guy who yesterday said Rogers will never be the #1 in Detroit and it was ridiculous to even think he could. I guess we all look at things differently.

When talking about talent, Im not really going to look at stats without taking into consideration injuries.

Your argument is what has he done - the answer is well, he's been injured, so he obviously hasent done much. In the rare times he has been healthy I remember him being a shutdown corner as good as any in the league. You go right ahead and rank Ronde Barber ahead of Woodson in terms of talent - its silly to me, but I understand where you are coming from.

As far as polling the Cafe - I guess I dont really care what everyone else thinks. Ive been here long enough to understand the negative affects of groupthink.

As for Woodson I have a good idea what he can do when he's healthy, and to me that makes him a top 5. Same as last yr and the yr before and the yr before...
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Postby jjdub » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:24 pm

I think CB one of the hardest positions to assess in the NFL... They only do well if the dline does well and they get support from their safeties... If they do well, you don't hear about them and "times covered the receiver enough to cause a different throw" isn't recorded as a stat (and is probably the most important stat IMO)... you want a guy to get ints but unless he catches a large percentage of the balls thrown his way, int stats are slightly misleading...

That said... a corner that gives up mid-play even once or twice a game can be devastating since they are often the last line of defense for a team... personally I would rather have a guy that gives it his all and screws up occasionally than a guy with all the talent in the world that feels it is fine to turn it on one play and sit one out the next...

Until the NFL reverses the silly contact rules (or at least lightens up a bit from last year) I don't think teams will be as willing to put up with the prima-dona corners...
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Postby RayVins » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:49 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RayVins wrote:What has woodson done in the nfl to merit him being a top-5 CB? absolyely nothing...

here are a few CBs better than him:
ty law
patrick surtain
chris mcalister
champ bailey
ronde barber
nate clements

woodson is cocky, demands way too much money for "winning a national championship and the Heisman trophy in college"... in college being the important words here. he thinks oakland should just be throwing him money for his medicore play because he was a high draft choice...

you ask all the people on this board whether charles woodson is overrated or underrated, i guarentee overrated wins because has always been hyped as a shut down corner and has never done anything to prove that...


Hes also been riddled with injuries, so it really depends on whether or not you factor that in. Some may argue Charles Rogers isnt as good as Bethel Johnson since clearly Johnson has put up much better stats, and I guess if thats the logic they use then so be it. Im not going to change anyones mind since Rogers hasent played much. Its similar to the guy who yesterday said Rogers will never be the #1 in Detroit and it was ridiculous to even think he could. I guess we all look at things differently.

When talking about talent, Im not really going to look at stats without taking into consideration injuries.

Your argument is what has he done - the answer is well, he's been injured, so he obviously hasent done much. In the rare times he has been healthy I remember him being a shutdown corner as good as any in the league. You go right ahead and rank Ronde Barber ahead of Woodson in terms of talent - its silly to me, but I understand where you are coming from.

As far as polling the Cafe - I guess I dont really care what everyone else thinks. Ive been here long enough to understand the negative affects of groupthink.

As for Woodson I have a good idea what he can do when he's healthy, and to me that makes him a top 5. Same as last yr and the yr before and the yr before...


yes you can SAY he is top 5 all you want, but the fact is he isnt...

you can have all your excuses because of injuries or whatever, fact still remains he has done nothing to prove he is a top-5 CB yet he still wants that kind of money...

this shows me he expects things be handed to him with no work involved, and sadly al davis is the type of idiot to give him the money he wants...

so say "he has been injured" all you want and keep making excuses, fact is he is OVERRATED...
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Postby Flux » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:09 pm

RayVins, what proof do you have that all those other CBs you mentioned are better than him?

Im not saying Woodson is or is not a top 5 CB, but you cant judge CBs by statistical categories. A true shut down corner will rarely be thrown at and therefore wont show much in terms of numbers.
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Postby RayVins » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:13 pm

Flux wrote:RayVins, what proof do you have that all those other CBs you mentioned are better than him?

Im not saying Woodson is or is not a top 5 CB, but you cant judge CBs by statistical categories. A true shut down corner will rarely be thrown at and therefore wont show much in terms of numbers.


i dont know about you, but i get to watch the raiders almost every week because i live in san diego. the SD fans to OAK fan ratio herre is about 1:1.

Living here in the middle of the AFCW i have learned two things about the CBs. woodson and bailey are greatly overrated. they are all speed and very little cover skill for being coveted as "shut down CBs"...

so you ask me how i know? not from their stats, but from actually watching them...
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Postby LT Blue Colt » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:06 pm

Detroit would welcome him. Or at least I would. ;-D
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:11 pm

I don't think Bailey is overrated (or at least overpaid), but I definitely do think Woodson is. I think he may be Top 5... maybe... but top 8 sounds better.

Surtain
Bailey
Madison
Clements
Rolle
McAllister (maybe... I hate that bastard)

All these I like more than Woodson.
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