want some opinions on joey harrington... - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

want some opinions on joey harrington...

Moderator: Football Moderators

qb situation

Postby ryguy80 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:10 pm

You guys can dog him all you want and complain about qb rating system. But this is fantasy football and it doesnt matter. The only stat that matters is pts/game.

As for harrington, as long as you draft smart and not too soon. And if you take both him and garcia you have made some great late round picks. But if you take one or the other then you give a great chance to screw yourself.
ryguy80
Cheerleader
Cheerleader


Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby ROYALWITCHEESE » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:55 pm

Some people act like he had a bad season. He had a solid year. He had 19 TDs 12 picks 3000 yards. That's more yards than Leftwich, Palmer, Pennington and about the same as Brees. And he did it with NO WEAPONS.

He only had a heathy Williams for about half a season and still put up decent numbers. In the games Roy was healthy Harrington averaged 239 yards 1.6 TDs and 1 INT.

No WRs and only 12 INTs? That's pretty good. He was top 10 in % passes picked off. That's really good. If his WRs stay healthy and they are able to generate a running game, I'd be willing to bet he has around 28 TDs and 15 picks and 4000 yards. In fact, I think the Lions make the playoffs this year and push the Vikes for the division.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 849
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby maddog60 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:23 pm

ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:Some people act like he had a bad season. He had a solid year. He had 19 TDs 12 picks 3000 yards. That's more yards than Leftwich, Palmer, Pennington and about the same as Brees. And he did it with NO WEAPONS.


Last time I checked:

Palmer was starting his first 16 NFL games, Harrington already had 30 starts under his belt. If I'm a coach and my QB is performing like a rookie, I'm not going to be happy.

Pennington was injured threw 370 passes compared to Harrington's 489. Great, it only took him 100 more attempts to have slightly better totals.

And Brees, I'm sorry, but last time I checked 19 TDs do not equal 29 TDs. Not to mention how 7 INTs are about half of 12, and Brees only made 400 attempts at passing to Joey's 489 attempts. So in reality, Harrington was no where near Brees's league last year, as QB ratings would indicate.

You are right about Leftwich, but then again, his season was a dismal disappointment last year with the Jags pathetic offense losing their defense games left and right. Doesn't mean leaving Harrington off the Pro Bowl ballot was a mistake last year.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby ROYALWITCHEESE » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:30 pm

maddog60 wrote:
ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:Some people act like he had a bad season. He had a solid year. He had 19 TDs 12 picks 3000 yards. That's more yards than Leftwich, Palmer, Pennington and about the same as Brees. And he did it with NO WEAPONS.


Last time I checked:

Palmer was starting his first 16 NFL games, Harrington already had 30 starts under his belt. If I'm a coach and my QB is performing like a rookie, I'm not going to be happy.

Pennington was injured threw 370 passes compared to Harrington's 489. Great, it only took him 100 more attempts to have slightly better totals.

And Brees, I'm sorry, but last time I checked 19 TDs do not equal 29 TDs. Not to mention how 7 INTs are about half of 12, and Brees only made 400 attempts at passing to Joey's 489 attempts. So in reality, Harrington was no where near Brees's league last year, as QB ratings would indicate.

You are right about Leftwich, but then again, his season was a dismal disappointment last year with the Jags pathetic offense losing their defense games left and right. Doesn't mean leaving Harrington off the Pro Bowl ballot was a mistake last year.


I said yards numbnuts. Why don't you read before you post? How many weapons did Palmer have? And Brees? And Pennington? That's what I thought. No one said he should've been a probowler.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 849
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby maddog60 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:38 pm

ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:I said yards numbnuts.


That was just flat-out uncalled for. If you can't handle people criticizing your post (and they will, I should know having gone against the grain myself), and having to back up and support your opinions, you shouldn't post. If you'd rather resort to name-calling, go somewhere else.

Why don't you read before you post?


I did, and had you read my post I wouldn't have to explain yet again why Joey's yardage totals are not comparable to Brees and Pennington. I suppose it never occurred to you that someone can misread a single word in your post?

[/quote]
How many weapons did Palmer have? And Brees? And Pennington? [/quote]

And since you obviously missed it:

Brees - 400 attempts, 7.9 YPA
Penny - 370 attempts, 7.2 YPA
Joey - 489 attempts, 6.2 YPA

Regardless of how many total yards Harrington had, it took him about 100 more attempts to acheive. So the totals are not in any way comparable.

As for Palmer, like I said, he was starting his 1st games ever, Harrington had two seasons under his belt. You have heard of QBs developing right? Outperforming a rookie QB should be no feat for a 3rd year starter.

Pennington's leading WR had 45 receptions and 838 yards, Roy had 54 receptions and 817 yards. While Gates alone made Brees's WR corps better than Harrington's, McCardell and Parker didn't make any more impact than Roy Williams did against defenses. And as said, Brees's rating shows him to be significantly better, which would be expected given his better surrounding talent.

Palmer may have had better tools, but let's assume for some crazy reason he should've been just as developed as Harrington. Harrington should've feasted upon Green Bay, Minnesota, and Chicago for 6 weeks. Harrington's division game up an average of 23.1 points per game, where'as Palmer's divisional opponents let up an average of 19 points per game. Those same defenses allowed 228 passing yards per game, whereas the ones in Palmer's division let up only 184.5 passing yards per game on average.

But, even with that divisional advantage in facing 6 significantly weaker defenses than Palmer, Harrington faced the AFC South (let up 229.2 yards passing and 22 points per game) and the NFC East (199 yards passing and 20 points per game). Palmer faced the NFC East as well, but the AFC East, which allowed only an average of 186.4 yards passing and 18.1 points per game on average. To say Palmer had a significantly harder schedule is an understatement.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby ROYALWITCHEESE » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:55 pm

maddog60 wrote:
ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:I said yards numbnuts.


That was just flat-out uncalled for. If you can't handle people criticizing your post (and they will, I should know having gone against the grain myself), and having to back up and support your opinions, you shouldn't post. If you'd rather resort to name-calling, go somewhere else.

Why don't you read before you post?


I did, and had you read my post I wouldn't have to explain yet again why Joey's yardage totals are not comparable to Brees and Pennington. I suppose it never occurred to you that someone can misread a single word in your post?


How many weapons did Palmer have? And Brees? And Pennington? [/quote]

And since you obviously missed it:

Brees - 400 attempts, 7.9 YPA
Penny - 370 attempts, 7.2 YPA
Joey - 489 attempts, 6.2 YPA

Regardless of how many total yards Harrington had, it took him about 100 more attempts to acheive. So the totals are not in any way comparable.

As for Palmer, like I said, he was starting his 1st games ever, Harrington had two seasons under his belt. You have heard of QBs developing right? Outperforming a rookie QB should be no feat for a 3rd year starter.

Pennington's leading WR had 45 receptions and 838 yards, Roy had 54 receptions and 817 yards. While Gates alone made Brees's WR corps better than Harrington's, McCardell and Parker didn't make any more impact than Roy Williams did against defenses. And as said, Brees's rating shows him to be significantly better, which would be expected given his better surrounding talent.

Palmer may have had better tools, but let's assume for some crazy reason he should've been just as developed as Harrington. Harrington should've feasted upon Green Bay, Minnesota, and Chicago for 6 weeks. Harrington's division game up an average of 23.1 points per game, where'as Palmer's divisional opponents let up an average of 19 points per game. Those same defenses allowed 228 passing yards per game, whereas the ones in Palmer's division let up only 184.5 passing yards per game on average.

But, even with that divisional advantage in facing 6 significantly weaker defenses than Palmer, Harrington faced the AFC South (let up 229.2 yards passing and 22 points per game) and the NFC East (199 yards passing and 20 points per game). Palmer faced the NFC East as well, but the AFC East, which allowed only an average of 186.4 yards passing and 18.1 points per game on average. To say Palmer had a significantly harder schedule is an understatement.[/quote]

Let's see. First off apologies. I didn't know a little friendly jobbing would ruffle your feathers.
Once again though, YOU missed it. You are still over-looking the fact that Harrington had NO WRs for about a 6 week span. How good would Pennington or Brees have done without LT-Gates or Martin-Moss for about 6 games? The fact that Harrington had to throw more is due to a lack of a running game which ALL three other QBs had superior to him last year. And what good are extra attempts when they are to Reggie Swinton, Tai Streets, Stephen Alexander, and Shaun Bryson? So tell me how Joey was supposed to lead his team to 23 points a game when Rogers, Williams, Jones and Hakim all missed significant time?
ROYALWITCHEESE
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 849
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby maddog60 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:39 pm

ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:Once again though, YOU missed it. You are still over-looking the fact that Harrington had NO WRs for about a 6 week span.


No. I'm not:

maddog60 wrote:Pennington's leading WR had 45 receptions and 838 yards, Roy had 54 receptions and 817 yards. While Gates alone made Brees's WR corps better than Harrington's, McCardell and Parker didn't make any more impact than Roy Williams did against defenses. And as said, Brees's rating shows him to be significantly better, which would be expected given his better surrounding talent.


The fact that Harrington had to throw more is due to a lack of a running game which ALL three other QBs had superior to him last year.


Its not that Harrington threw more that I hold against him its that he did less per attempt. You can't just compare season totals like you originally did to evaluate QBs. And with mediocre talent, there are still questions, like why is it that even after starting due to injuries, Tai Streets had the worst year of his past 5 now that he's finally in Detroit?

Now if you'd like to debate the issue of surrounding talent, I believe its already been posted earlier in this thread several QBs who succeeded with comparable or less talent than Harrington, none of which are worthy of being starting QBs in the NFL.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby ROYALWITCHEESE » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:59 pm

maddog60 wrote:
ROYALWITCHEESE wrote:Once again though, YOU missed it. You are still over-looking the fact that Harrington had NO WRs for about a 6 week span.


No. I'm not:

maddog60 wrote:Pennington's leading WR had 45 receptions and 838 yards, Roy had 54 receptions and 817 yards. While Gates alone made Brees's WR corps better than Harrington's, McCardell and Parker didn't make any more impact than Roy Williams did against defenses. And as said, Brees's rating shows him to be significantly better, which would be expected given his better surrounding talent.


The fact that Harrington had to throw more is due to a lack of a running game which ALL three other QBs had superior to him last year.


Its not that Harrington threw more that I hold against him its that he did less per attempt. You can't just compare season totals like you originally did to evaluate QBs. And with mediocre talent, there are still questions, like why is it that even after starting due to injuries, Tai Streets had the worst year of his past 5 now that he's finally in Detroit?

Now if you'd like to debate the issue of surrounding talent, I believe its already been posted earlier in this thread several QBs who succeeded with comparable or less talent than Harrington, none of which are worthy of being starting QBs in the NFL.


Streets is now out of the league if that answers your question.

And you didn't answer mine. What do you think would've happened had the others lost all their weapons?
ROYALWITCHEESE
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 849
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:01 am

maddog60 wrote:Now if you'd like to debate the issue of surrounding talent, I believe its already been posted earlier in this thread several QBs who succeeded with comparable or less talent than Harrington, none of which are worthy of being starting QBs in the NFL.


really? Please refresh me - I must have missed it. What QBs succeeded in their 1st 3 yrs with the worst running game and WRs in the NFL?
Cornbread Maxwell
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 5924
Joined: 7 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby ROYALWITCHEESE » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:18 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
maddog60 wrote:Now if you'd like to debate the issue of surrounding talent, I believe its already been posted earlier in this thread several QBs who succeeded with comparable or less talent than Harrington, none of which are worthy of being starting QBs in the NFL.


really? Please refresh me - I must have missed it. What QBs succeeded in their 1st 3 yrs with the worst running game and WRs in the NFL?


Don't mind maddog. He doesn't read the posts and remembers things that weren't there. He also argues with you on things he has never seen.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 849
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Football

PreviousNext

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 13:28 hours
(and 36 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact