maddog60 wrote:I still can't understand the whole Jevon is greedy argument. He's his teams leading WR 2 years running, and he's making less than guys who are backups on this team, guys who may not play more than 4 downs of football a week (I'm figuring in special teams).
I mean, everyone tries making comparisons to a regular working world, how about salespersons. They work on commission, because well, it wouldn't be fair to pay a salesman who cant sell anything the same as a guy who can ice to the eskimos. Well, the Packers are effectively paying some of their least effective people more than one the hardest working, best producing people on the team. You know that any of us would demand a raise or give our two weeks notice in that situation.
People keep saying that Walker is being a baby, but what would you do if you couldn't give your employer two weeks notice. If quitting your job meant quitting the entire industry, changing your entire career? How would you react if you couldn't quit and were getting paid less than a guy who can't do half as good a job as you've done for 2 years?
You know what maddog, I really don't care that the backups backup makes less money that Javon does. Javon signed the initial contract and accepted that he would get 550K in his 4th year - end of debate.
Besides which - who is to say how much of Javon's success is Javon's own doing at this point? Maybe the Pack can slap a 3rd rounder in his spot, have Favre throw them all Javon's touches and they'll do just as good or better than he did... Or maybe not, but I bet they could get someone for 550K who could do almost as well - and not be a locker room cancer to boot!
As much of a dirtbag as I consider TO to be, at least he can point to how his presence on the team has elevated the play of others like McNabb etc... Javon has one great (and one solid) year to point to - big whoopdee freakin doo! Did the rest of the team play better because of it? No. Do they NEED him to play this year? Also no. Play for your 550k or don't play at all now that you have soured the owners (and many of the fans) with your hold out.
I can't believe I've actually read this entire thread.
Anyway, in my opinion, he knew the rules of the game when he joined the NFL. He knew about backloaded contracts, about no guaranteed money, about what signing a six year rookie deal meant. If he didn't like it, he didn't have to sign.
The only reason I can see that he signed a six year deal as a rookie is that he never thought he would perform at the level that he has. If he thought so, he should've signed for three years then hit the open market. But believing that he would be a mediocre WR, signing a three year deal wouldn't do much for him. He would need to prove his worth within those three years to either have his deal extended or catch on somewhere else in free agency, otherwise that ten year average NFL lifespan would've taken a little dip. However, signing a long term deal gave him security...security that as long as he played just well enough to not get cut, he'd be financially stable for life. But now that he's exceeded even his own expectations, he thinks the Packers have to show him the money. But guess what...they don't. He's contractually obligated to play for the Packers at the price that was already agreed upon. He has no options. Those are the rules of the game. Rules that he has known since Day One. And if he never knew the rules, then that's his own fault.
I bet the day he signed that contract was the happiest day of his life. What has changed since then? Not a thing...except his agent.
That being said, I do feel that Javon Walker is underpaid. Do I feel sorry for him? Not in the least. The worst case scenario is this...he breaks his leg in camp, is forced into retirement, and has to join the working schmoes of the world. Except he has a $2 million head start on the rest of us. Poor thing.
The most laugable part of this whole thing is that Rosenhaus has his nose bent out of shape about how Favre misunderstood what he said and took it out of context.
Waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!! I'm Drew Rosenhaus and Brett Favurah took me out of context! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! You know what you slimy, agent douche, go crawl back in your hole with the Postens and wait till night fall to come out so you can suck the blood out of some other person of talent.
Total rookie contract is 5 years, $7.485 million, which paid him $4.3 million in guaranteed money and calls for him to receive base salaries of $515,000 this year and $650,000 next year. Not shabby numbers. Bottomline is, he produces again this year, GB ponies up the cash no questions asked, no good will burned.
How does the elephant go back in the bottle?
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Here's the thing.... Favre isn't asking the Packers to come up with more money out of their pocket for him.... There is a salary cap.... The Packers are going to be paying roughly $85-million in salaries for their football team, REGARDLESS.... Last year the Packers had about an $80-million pay-roll, and you can be sure that when they get done signing their rookies, including Aaron Rodgers, they're going to be right at the cap limit.... Javon isn't asking them to dig down and throw more money into that pot..... He's not asking that they should spend $100-million this year, instead of $85-million.... He's asking for a more equitable distribution of cash.... He's asking that he, as the team's 2nd most valuable player, be paid what he's worth in comparison to what his teammates make....
Let's look at what some other Packers made in 2004:
Robert Ferguson (3rd string WR) - $3.95-million
Ryan Longwell (1st string kicker) - $1.50-million
Mark Roman (1st string safety) - $1.25-million
William Henderson (1st string FB) - $946,100
BJ Sander (1st string punter) - $813,625
David Martin (2nd string TE) - $629,800
Tony Fisher (3rd string RB) - $583,100
Donald Driver (2nd string WR) - $571,100
Nick Luchey (2nd string FB) - $551,100
Javon Walker (Pro-Bowl WR) - $391,500
Now, you tell me, how is it that the most valuable Packer in 2004 made that much less than all of these other less valuable players, and doesn't have a right to bitch about it.... He couldn't control the amount of money his rookie contract was written for.... He couldn't control that at all.... He was left to the mercy of where he got drafted.... So, how is it that the Packers don't have an obligation to re-adjust their salary distribution in order to give one of their most valuable players a bigger piece of the pie now that he's proven himself to be so important to the team?
Besides which - who is to say how much of Javon's success is Javon's own doing at this point? Maybe the Pack can slap a 3rd rounder in his spot, have Favre throw them all Javon's touches and they'll do just as good or better than he did... Or maybe not, but I bet they could get someone for 550K who could do almost as well - and not be a locker room cancer to boot!
Stunning, simply stunning. Forgetting the bulk of this statement, I'll ask about the last part. When has Walker been considered a cancer in the locker room? Holding out doesn't bother the others as much as you may think. They, except the tumorous Favre, are pulling for Javon to win. Sure they'd rather he weren't holding out, but remember they have contracts too. How is Bubba Franks going to argue for more money when the Pack can say "Whoa! Hold on, why should we pay you x- amount when we pay probolwers a 1/2 a mil"? He certainly isn't a cancer on this issue.
And as far as an earlier statement you questioned, the Lions make a profit without adding in ticket revenues. The TV contract is that huge.
Total rookie contract is 5 years, $7.485 million, which paid him $4.3 million in guaranteed money and calls for him to receive base salaries of $515,000 this year and $650,000 next year. Not shabby numbers. Bottomline is, he produces again this year, GB ponies up the cash no questions asked, no good will burned.
How does the elephant go back in the bottle?
Agreed, Madscott, Walker won't have to be a streetWalker with the money he has been paid. But $515,000 for a probowler heading into his prime is ridiculous. And how does the elephant go back in the bottle? For all of Favre's front office butt-sucking he fails to take into account something he doesn't have to worry about: the future.
But Bret, you turd, you won't be around for the fall out. Walker, should he stay healthy and you are able to get him the ball when he's open, will surely hold a grudge over you and your butties in the front office. He will walk. And the Pack will be holding the bag, while you move off to Madden's trailer for your next career in broadcasting.
It makes no sense for the Pack not to make him happy. Even less for Favre to be looking out for the team, that is the front office team, than his teammates.
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someone earlier made some comment about "anti trust" exemptions -- to clarify, only baseball has such an exemption.
I think its clear here that there are mitigating circumstances fro Javon Walker that don't apply to TO.
Walker never had the chance to intitially negotiate. until free agency, you are basically an indentured servant, albeit a highly paid one.
TO and others have no room to complain, as they were free to negotiate with whomever they wanted. After that, you sign a deal in good faith, you keep to it. Market conditions after the fact should be irrelevant. Markets change.
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maddog60 wrote:I still can't understand the whole Jevon is greedy argument. He's his teams leading WR 2 years running, and he's making less than guys who are backups on this team, guys who may not play more than 4 downs of football a week (I'm figuring in special teams).
I mean, everyone tries making comparisons to a regular working world, how about salespersons. They work on commission, because well, it wouldn't be fair to pay a salesman who cant sell anything the same as a guy who can ice to the eskimos. Well, the Packers are effectively paying some of their least effective people more than one the hardest working, best producing people on the team. You know that any of us would demand a raise or give our two weeks notice in that situation.
People keep saying that Walker is being a baby, but what would you do if you couldn't give your employer two weeks notice. If quitting your job meant quitting the entire industry, changing your entire career? How would you react if you couldn't quit and were getting paid less than a guy who can't do half as good a job as you've done for 2 years?
You know what maddog, I really don't care that the backups backup makes less money that Javon does. Javon signed the initial contract and accepted that he would get 550K in his 4th year - end of debate.
Besides which - who is to say how much of Javon's success is Javon's own doing at this point? Maybe the Pack can slap a 3rd rounder in his spot, have Favre throw them all Javon's touches and they'll do just as good or better than he did... Or maybe not, but I bet they could get someone for 550K who could do almost as well - and not be a locker room cancer to boot!
As much of a dirtbag as I consider TO to be, at least he can point to how his presence on the team has elevated the play of others like McNabb etc... Javon has one great (and one solid) year to point to - big whoopdee freakin doo! Did the rest of the team play better because of it? No. Do they NEED him to play this year? Also no. Play for your 550k or don't play at all now that you have soured the owners (and many of the fans) with your hold out.
So wait a minute..Javon only deserves 500k when guys we haven't even heard of are making twice and almost 3 times as much as he is? How is it fair that because he was drafted in the 6th round that he is being under-paid?
I'm sorry, But how can you say Javon Walker is easily replaceable? Are you a moron?..Honestly. It's not easy to go out and get pro-bowlers. If that was the case, Why aren't teams everywhere signing pro-bowlers for 550k? He's only been in the league for 4 years..How many great years do you expect him to have? You want him to have a fantastic rookie season when he didn't even start? Or what about his 2nd season when he was still learning the ropes of the NFL game..I don't know what you have against Walker but your arguments are retarded. In all fairness, Do you really think it's that bad for Walker to hold out? He's wasting away half of his NFL career because he was drafted in the 6th round...While guys like Joe Shmoe are being paid for being on the bench.
Sports, especially football, is one of the only jobs I know where you can refuse to come to work until you get paid more money and NOT lose your job.
Think about how screwed up our society would be if this were the norm year to year. Say the President George W thinks he did a smash up job catching Hussein and turns around says I'm at Camp David and not coming back to the White House until I get paid, show W the money!
Dear Javon, you had one good year. Thank your lucky stars you had BRETT FAVRE throwing to you and not ELI MANNING. Would you be a top 10 receiver going into this season if you were on just about any team other than GB, MN, IN, NE???????
Have another great year and the front office will make you their poster child.
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by lmcjaho » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:05 am 
