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Postby ironman » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:58 am

Well hopefully the lists will be posted in the Cheat Sheets section soon. But for those that are looking for something right now, here's some of it. Also I started this as a new thread to allow it to become more of a IDP discussion and get people's thoughts on the rankings. The old thread was getting long and tired and was more for those that wanted to submit lists.

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN

1. Julius Peppers CAR
2. Dwight Freeney IND
3. Jason Taylor MIA
4. Kevin Williams MIN
5. Charles Grant NO
6. Patrick Kerney ATL
7. Michael Strahan NYG
8. Simeon Rice TB
9. John Abraham NYJ
10. Aaron Schobel BUF
11. Bertrand Berry ARI
12. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila GB
13. James Hall DET
14. Shaun Ellis NYJ
15. Justin Smith CIN
16. Rod Coleman ATL
17. Darren Howard NO
18. Jevon Kearse PHI
19. Leonard Little STL
20. John Henderson JAC
21. Mike Rucker CAR
22. Grant Wistrom SEA
23. Adewale Ogunleye CHI
24. Corneluis Griffin WAS
25. Greg Ellis DAL

DEFENSIVE BACKS

1. Ed Reed BAL
2. Rodney Harrison NE
3. Ronde Barber TB
4. Troy Polamalu PIT
5. Roy Williams DAL
6. Dunta Robinson HOU
7. Madieu Williams CIN
8. Marcus Trufant SEA
9. Darren Sharper MIN
10. Nate Clements BUF
11. Adrian Wilson ARI
12. Sean Taylor WAS
13. Erik Coleman NYJ
14. Sammy Knight KC
15. Adam Archuleta STL
16. Michael Lewis PHI
17. Antoine Winfield MIN
18. Brian Dawkins PHI
19. Donovin Darius JAC
20. Mike Green CHI
21. Terrence McGee BUF
22. Michael Boulware SEA
23. Lawyer Milloy BUF
24. Tony Parrish SF
25. Mike Brown CHI

LINEBACKERS

1. Keith Bulluck TEN
2. Ray Lewis BAL
3. Donnie Edwards SD
4. Brian Urlacher CHI
5. Jonathan Vilma NYJ
6. Takeo Spikes BUF
7. Derrick Brooks TB
8. Mike Peterson JAC
9. Jamie Sharper SEA
10. Keith Brooking ATL
11. James Farrior PIT
12. Zach Thomas MIA
13. Nick Barnett GB
14. London Fletcher BUF
15. Antonio Pierce NYG
16. Dan Morgan CAR
17. Will Witherspoon CAR
18. LaVar Arrington WAS
19. Jeremiah Trotter PHI
20. Edgerton Hartwell ATL
21. Andra Davis CLE
22. Brian Simmons CIN
23. Julian Peterson SF
24. Dat Nguyen DAL
25. Eric Barton NYJ
26. Lance Briggs CHI
27. Al Wilson DEN
28. Terrell Suggs BAL
29. Sam Cowart MIN
30. D.J. Williams DEN
31. Kendrell Bell KC
32. Derek Smith SF
33. Danny Clark OAK
34. Marcus Washington WAS
35. Kailee Wong HOU
36. Teddy Lehman DET
37. Steve Foley SD
38. Joey Porter PIT
39. Derrick Johnson KC
40. Morlon Greenwood HOU
41. Ian Gold DEN
42. Chris Claiborne STL
43. Shelton Quarles TB
44. Jeff Ulbrich SF
45. Courtney Watson NO
46. Cato June IND
47. Akin Ayodele JAC
48. Odell Thurman CIN
49. Karlos Dansby ARI
50. Lance Mitchell ARI
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Postby VaderFin » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:12 am

Is this the average then?
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Postby awwchrist » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:46 am

I'm locking the other thread then if there are no objections...
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Postby Plindsey88 » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:44 pm

Ironman, I hope you don't mind, but I reworked your formula in order to drop the high and the low before averaging..... It makes for a better representation of the rankings, as well as keeps with the same procedure we used here at the cafe for the offensive rankings....

When I send Arlo the completed sheet, that's what I am going to send him.... It's far more accurate that way.... And it really didn't change the rankings by all that much, but it does correct for mistakes, like the fact that I forgot about Dunta Robinson.... Instead of factoring in the 26, that I would have mistakenly given him by forgetting to include him on my list, that is the "low score" that gets dropped before averaging.....

Here's the new list:

Defensive Linemen:

1. Julius Peppers
2. Dwight Freeney
3. Jason Taylor
4. Charles Grant
5. Kevin Williams
6. Patrick Kerney
7. Michael Strahan
8. Simeon Rice
9. John Abraham
10. Aaron Schobel
11. Bertrand Berry
12. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
13. Shaun Ellis
14. James Hall
15. Justin Smith
16. Rod Coleman
17. Leonard Little
18. Darren Howard
19. John Henderson
20. Jevon Kearse
21. Mike Rucker
22. Grant Wistrom
23. Adewale Ogunleye
24. Cornelius Griffin
25. Shaun Rogers
26. Alex Brown
27. Osi Umenyiora
28. Greg Ellis
29. Reggie Hayward
30. Will Smith


Defensive backs:

1. Ed Reed
2. Rodney Harrison
3. Ronde Barber
4. Troy Polamalu
5. Dunta Robinson
6. Roy Williams
7. Madieu Williams
8. Marcus Trufant
9. Darren Sharper
10. Nate Clements
11. Adrian Wilson
12. Sean Taylor
13. Erik Coleman
14. Sammy Knight
15. Adam Archuleta
16. Antoine Winfield
17. Michael Lewis
18. Brian Dawkins
19. Donovin Darius
20. Terrence McGee
21. Tony Parrish
22. Mike Green
23. Mike Brown
24. Michael Boulware
25. Lawyer Milloy
26. Terrence Kiel
27. Thomas Davis
28. Sean Jones
29. Bryan Scott
30. Ken Lucas



Linebackers:

1. Keith Bulluck
2. Ray Lewis
3. Donnie Edwards
4. Brian Urlacher
5. Jonathan Vilma
6. Derrick Brooks
7. Takeo Spikes
8. Mike Peterson
9. Zach Thomas
10. Keith Brooking
11. Jamie Sharper
12. Nick Barnett
13. James Farrior
14. London Fletcher
15. Dan Morgan
16. Antonio Pierce
17. Lavar Arrington
18. Will Weatherspoon
19. Jeremiah Trotter
20. Ed Hartwell
21. Andra Davis
22. Brian Simmons
23. Julian Peterson
24. Dat Nguyen
25. Eric Barton
26. D.J. Williams
27. Sam Cowart
28. Al Wilson
29. Lance Briggs
30. Terrell Suggs
31. Kendrell Bell
32. Derek Smith
33. Danny Clark
34. Marcus Washington
35. Kailee Wong
36. Steve Foley
37. Joey Porter
38. Teddy Lehman
39. Derrick Johnson
40. Ian Gold
41. Morlon Greenwood
42. Shelton Quarles
43. Chris Claiborne
44. Jeff Ulbrich
45. Akin Ayodele
46. Cato June
47. Courtney Watson
48. Odell Thurman
49. David Thornton
50. Karlos Dansby
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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:55 pm

Wow. How in the world does Terrell Suggs fall to #30?!?! 8-o

In real life or in fantasy this guy should be a lot higher if not in the top 5. Can play LB or DE depending on the formation. A 23 year old with 21 1/2 sacks in the past two years! He had more sacks than any other LB last year and would be tied for #13 amongst linemen.

You cannot argue that he is one dimensional when you rank KGB as the #12 lineman. Suggs is getting much better against the run and will soon be, if he is not already, one of the premier defenders in the league.
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Postby VaderFin » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:00 pm

Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:Wow. How in the world does Terrell Suggs fall to #30?!?! 8-o

In real life or in fantasy this guy should be a lot higher if not in the top 5. Can play LB or DE depending on the formation. A 23 year old with 21 1/2 sacks in the past two years! He had more sacks than any other LB last year and would be tied for #13 amongst linemen.

You cannot argue that he is one dimensional when you rank KGB as the #12 lineman. Suggs is getting much better against the run and will soon be, if he is not already, one of the premier defenders in the league.



Suggs is a LB for these rankings and LBs get big points for tackles and Suggs had a whopping 60 tackles last year. He just doesn't stack up in fantasy at linebacker.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:16 pm

VaderFin wrote:
Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:Wow. How in the world does Terrell Suggs fall to #30?!?! 8-o

In real life or in fantasy this guy should be a lot higher if not in the top 5. Can play LB or DE depending on the formation. A 23 year old with 21 1/2 sacks in the past two years! He had more sacks than any other LB last year and would be tied for #13 amongst linemen.

You cannot argue that he is one dimensional when you rank KGB as the #12 lineman. Suggs is getting much better against the run and will soon be, if he is not already, one of the premier defenders in the league.



Suggs is a LB for these rankings and LBs get big points for tackles and Suggs had a whopping 60 tackles last year. He just doesn't stack up in fantasy at linebacker.


So all you did was look at last year's stats to make these rankings?

As a DE Suggs had more tackles than all but 7 other DE. Now he's a LB and you don't think that he will get tackles? He is 6'3" 260 and faster than 90% of the LB out there. If he doesn't get over 90 tackles along with 9+ sacks (only getting fewer than 100 tackles because he will probably be shifting between 2 positions) I will eat my hat.

Depending on your scoring, he could challenge Bullock and Reed for most valuable defender in IDP leagues.
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Postby ironman » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:29 pm

Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:
VaderFin wrote:
Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:Wow. How in the world does Terrell Suggs fall to #30?!?! 8-o

In real life or in fantasy this guy should be a lot higher if not in the top 5. Can play LB or DE depending on the formation. A 23 year old with 21 1/2 sacks in the past two years! He had more sacks than any other LB last year and would be tied for #13 amongst linemen.

You cannot argue that he is one dimensional when you rank KGB as the #12 lineman. Suggs is getting much better against the run and will soon be, if he is not already, one of the premier defenders in the league.


Suggs is a LB for these rankings and LBs get big points for tackles and Suggs had a whopping 60 tackles last year. He just doesn't stack up in fantasy at linebacker.


So all you did was look at last year's stats to make these rankings?

As a DE Suggs had more tackles than all but 7 other DE. Now he's a LB and you don't think that he will get tackles? He is 6'3" 260 and faster than 90% of the LB out there. If he doesn't get over 90 tackles along with 9+ sacks (only getting fewer than 100 tackles because he will probably be shifting between 2 positions) I will eat my hat.

Depending on your scoring, he could challenge Bullock and Reed for most valuable defender in IDP leagues.


I had him ranked as DL but switched him to the LB's to keep everything the same with everyone else. He was in the Top Ten for DL's but among LB's he doesn't get much love. And despite the LB label, Suggs is still listed among DL in the Ravens depth chart in most places, so I'm still looking at it that he'll be playing there.

You make a good argument though Mookie. Suggs is just one of those cases where a player doesn't fit nicely into a category.
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Postby ironman » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:33 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:Ironman, I hope you don't mind, but I reworked your formula in order to drop the high and the low before averaging..... It makes for a better representation of the rankings, as well as keeps with the same procedure we used here at the cafe for the offensive rankings....

When I send Arlo the completed sheet, that's what I am going to send him.... It's far more accurate that way.... And it really didn't change the rankings by all that much, but it does correct for mistakes, like the fact that I forgot about Dunta Robinson.... Instead of factoring in the 26, that I would have mistakenly given him by forgetting to include him on my list, that is the "low score" that gets dropped before averaging.....

Here's the new list:

Defensive Linemen:

1. Julius Peppers
2. Dwight Freeney
3. Jason Taylor
4. Charles Grant
5. Kevin Williams
6. Patrick Kerney
7. Michael Strahan
8. Simeon Rice
9. John Abraham
10. Aaron Schobel
11. Bertrand Berry
12. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
13. Shaun Ellis
14. James Hall
15. Justin Smith
16. Rod Coleman
17. Leonard Little
18. Darren Howard
19. John Henderson
20. Jevon Kearse
21. Mike Rucker
22. Grant Wistrom
23. Adewale Ogunleye
24. Cornelius Griffin
25. Shaun Rogers
26. Alex Brown
27. Osi Umenyiora
28. Greg Ellis
29. Reggie Hayward
30. Will Smith


Defensive backs:

1. Ed Reed
2. Rodney Harrison
3. Ronde Barber
4. Troy Polamalu
5. Dunta Robinson
6. Roy Williams
7. Madieu Williams
8. Marcus Trufant
9. Darren Sharper
10. Nate Clements
11. Adrian Wilson
12. Sean Taylor
13. Erik Coleman
14. Sammy Knight
15. Adam Archuleta
16. Antoine Winfield
17. Michael Lewis
18. Brian Dawkins
19. Donovin Darius
20. Terrence McGee
21. Tony Parrish
22. Mike Green
23. Mike Brown
24. Michael Boulware
25. Lawyer Milloy
26. Terrence Kiel
27. Thomas Davis
28. Sean Jones
29. Bryan Scott
30. Ken Lucas



Linebackers:

1. Keith Bulluck
2. Ray Lewis
3. Donnie Edwards
4. Brian Urlacher
5. Jonathan Vilma
6. Derrick Brooks
7. Takeo Spikes
8. Mike Peterson
9. Zach Thomas
10. Keith Brooking
11. Jamie Sharper
12. Nick Barnett
13. James Farrior
14. London Fletcher
15. Dan Morgan
16. Antonio Pierce
17. Lavar Arrington
18. Will Weatherspoon
19. Jeremiah Trotter
20. Ed Hartwell
21. Andra Davis
22. Brian Simmons
23. Julian Peterson
24. Dat Nguyen
25. Eric Barton
26. D.J. Williams
27. Sam Cowart
28. Al Wilson
29. Lance Briggs
30. Terrell Suggs
31. Kendrell Bell
32. Derek Smith
33. Danny Clark
34. Marcus Washington
35. Kailee Wong
36. Steve Foley
37. Joey Porter
38. Teddy Lehman
39. Derrick Johnson
40. Ian Gold
41. Morlon Greenwood
42. Shelton Quarles
43. Chris Claiborne
44. Jeff Ulbrich
45. Akin Ayodele
46. Cato June
47. Courtney Watson
48. Odell Thurman
49. David Thornton
50. Karlos Dansby


That's fine, I wasn't sure if that's what you guys did or not so I left it with the raw totals.

Heck it probably drops off a lot of my numbers. My DB rankings were quite a bit different than everyone else's. :-)
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Postby VaderFin » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:51 pm

Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:
VaderFin wrote:
Mookie4ever_ffc wrote:Wow. How in the world does Terrell Suggs fall to #30?!?! 8-o

In real life or in fantasy this guy should be a lot higher if not in the top 5. Can play LB or DE depending on the formation. A 23 year old with 21 1/2 sacks in the past two years! He had more sacks than any other LB last year and would be tied for #13 amongst linemen.

You cannot argue that he is one dimensional when you rank KGB as the #12 lineman. Suggs is getting much better against the run and will soon be, if he is not already, one of the premier defenders in the league.



Suggs is a LB for these rankings and LBs get big points for tackles and Suggs had a whopping 60 tackles last year. He just doesn't stack up in fantasy at linebacker.


So all you did was look at last year's stats to make these rankings?

As a DE Suggs had more tackles than all but 7 other DE. Now he's a LB and you don't think that he will get tackles? He is 6'3" 260 and faster than 90% of the LB out there. If he doesn't get over 90 tackles along with 9+ sacks (only getting fewer than 100 tackles because he will probably be shifting between 2 positions) I will eat my hat.

Depending on your scoring, he could challenge Bullock and Reed for most valuable defender in IDP leagues.



I think Suggs is a great player. But for fantasy purposes at LB he won't get the tackles needed to rank with the big boys. He will still be used mostly to rush the passer (as he should be). At DE he would be Top 5 easy but we didn't rank him there. It seems like everyone was pretty similar in this opinion as I actually had him ranked better then 30th I believe but that is where he averaged out.
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