Michael Vick - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Michael Vick

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby Kensat30 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:34 pm

aussieboy wrote:
BrutallyHuge wrote:
aussieboy wrote:
maddog60 wrote:
toofunny wrote:
maddog60 wrote:Starting Vick is like going all in with an open-ended straight draw. Sure its fun and exciting, but I wouldn't do it unless I was desperate.


But when the price is right, you never fold. And Vick in the 8th round, a 25 year old pro bowl qb, who is capable of being a FF stud?


You say that like his inclusion of the Pro Bowl last year wasn't a slap in the face to every hard working talented and productive player in the NFL that actually earned the distinction.


huh? What Vick doesn't work hard? Last time I checked a Vick led team got to the conference championship game. Sure he isn't the prototype QB, and yes he has some bad games, but at the end of the day this guy is a playmaker. You might be able to argue that Vick isn't a great fantasy option, but in real life there would only be 2 or 3 QBs id take over Vick. In fact, Peyton Manning is the ONLY QB id start a team with over Vick. No QB in the league dictates the way defenses play like Vick does. Give him time learning his new offense, and give him some wide out weapons....he'll come good.


You say "led team got to the conference championship game" (which first of all, doesn't make any sense) like he carried them on his back.

Well, Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to a Super Bowl....by default. I guess all QBs "lead" their team...if you put a Pee-Wee team in the NFL with Peyton as QB, he'd "lead" that team into last place.

The Falcons relied on a great 1-2 rushing attack last year and a very good defense. 14TDs and 12INTs passing is not leading a team to anything except mediocrity....their defense and running game got them that far.


Ok, first of all I I was trashed last night when I wrote that, so I apologise for the poor grammar.

Secondly, if you wanna quote numbers please don't just include half the picture. Yeh sure 14-12 ratio isn't the best for a QB, but hows about 900 yards 3TDs rushing? Most of all time I beleive. Numbers can lie I think, and Vick's passing numbers don't truly reflect the impact Vick has on the game. He makes plays. Through the air or on the ground.

You said it was Atlanta's rushing game that was the major factor in their success last season, wasn't Vick a major part of this? In fact, you could argue that Dunn's success was due in large part to Vick being so dominant on the ground.

Oh and don't feed me rhetoric about peewee QBs and Dilfer etc. The fact of the matter is this, Atlanta WOULD NOT have got to the Conference game without Vick. Simple. The Ravens prob still would've still got to the SuperBowl without Dilfer, that's the difference. It's easy to get confused with fantasy and real life, I understand, but I doubt there is a single player in the league that defensive co-ordinators spend more time trying to contain.


With exception of Randy Moss I totally agree. Without Vick, the Falcon's not only don't make the championship game, they are a losing team IMO. Just look at 2002, 2003, 2004 wins to verfiy this. 2002 Falcon's are the first team in history to beat GB@home in the playoffs. 2003 Vick injured Falcon's one of the worst teams in the NFL. 2004 Vick back, Falcon's make it to the NFC Championship.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Redskins Win » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:51 pm

moochman wrote:When you go to bed with Ron Mexico you never know if you'll wake up with TDs or STDs.


That's just wrong . . . but funny ;-D
Image[/quote]
[size=14][b]Letters from the procupine, they'll stick straight through you.
So read one anytime you think you've made mistakes.[/b][/size]
Redskins Win
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 8272
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby BrutallyHuge » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:53 pm

aussieboy wrote:Secondly, if you wanna quote numbers please don't just include half the picture. Yeh sure 14-12 ratio isn't the best for a QB, but hows about 900 yards 3TDs rushing? Most of all time I beleive. Numbers can lie I think, and Vick's passing numbers don't truly reflect the impact Vick has on the game. He makes plays. Through the air or on the ground.

You said it was Atlanta's rushing game that was the major factor in their success last season, wasn't Vick a major part of this? In fact, you could argue that Dunn's success was due in large part to Vick being so dominant on the ground.

Oh and don't feed me rhetoric about peewee QBs and Dilfer etc. The fact of the matter is this, Atlanta WOULD NOT have got to the Conference game without Vick. Simple.


First of all, 3 rushing TDs is nothing to write home about. Marc Bulger, Mr. Lightning, had 3 rushing TDs last year.

And arguing that Vick is a major factor is their run success is like saying water is wet. He took 120 attempts! Of course if someone takes 120 rushing attempts, he'll influence the total rushing yards of the team. He had more carries than Duckett!

I'll quote some more numbers from last year. 15 games...16 fumbles. Great stat.

If Atlanta had a competent QB, they could've done better. In the NFC Championship game, he was 11 of 24 for 136 yards...0 TDs...1 INT...4 rushes for 26 yards...no TDs...1 fumble.

It's quite simple that his numbers are garbage. Low total TDs, low passing yardage, low QB rating, high fumbles, low completion %. So he has rushing yardage going for him? Great. It's not enough. QB in the NFL isn't about being flashy and making Sportscenter...it's about producing. He doesn't.
BrutallyHuge
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle EyeCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5971
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Illadelph

Postby maddog60 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:40 pm

BrutallyHuge wrote:I'll quote some more numbers from last year. 15 games...16 fumbles. Great stat.


Whats best about that stat is that Vick has actually gotten worse with turnovers. He fumbled/threw INTs:

01 - 1.125 per game
02 - 1.133 per game
03 - 1.400 per game
04 - 1.866 per game

This is not the trend of a QB who's developing, but rather one who is regressing. You can't have your QB coughing up the ball 2 times a game. None of the elite QBs have anywhere close to that atrocious number, and its no coincidence:

Manning - .9375
McNabb - 1.066
Brady - 1.312
Culpepper - 1.25

Vick does make plays, and big ones, but he doesnt sustain drivers very well, and you never know if his big play will be a 30+ yard scramble or a turnover.

We're talking about a guy who could have 100 QB Rating one week, but a sub 20 rating the next week. He might get a respectable 250 total yards one week, but then 4 turnovers the next. No QB should struggle to gain 200 total yards, but Vick does.

He performs like a backup too often. SF, Arizona, Carolina, Detroit, KC, TB, Carolina, that's 7 out of his 15 games last year, that I would expect Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Garcia, Kitna, or Testaverde, any journeyman QB could've done just as well or better. That's half the year that Mike Vick was a hinderance to his team. And its not like he folds to bad defenses, its inconsistent. KC, SF, and Arizona weren't typically scaring any QBs last year, but Vick posted some awful numbers playing those teams.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby bellybrother » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:55 pm

moochman wrote:Vick is a great value after the 6th round. That said, he is a huge risk if your plan is to use him as your starter. Though I feel that he is ready to have his breakout season in a more conventional sense, I still have to see it before I could play him as my #1QB.

When you go to bed with Ron Mexico you never know if you'll wake up with TDs or STDs.


O:-) :-o :~(
Image

If You're Not Livin On The Edge, You're Takin Up Too Much Space
bellybrother
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 397
Joined: 7 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby aussieboy » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:00 pm

BrutallyHuge wrote:
aussieboy wrote:Secondly, if you wanna quote numbers please don't just include half the picture. Yeh sure 14-12 ratio isn't the best for a QB, but hows about 900 yards 3TDs rushing? Most of all time I beleive. Numbers can lie I think, and Vick's passing numbers don't truly reflect the impact Vick has on the game. He makes plays. Through the air or on the ground.

You said it was Atlanta's rushing game that was the major factor in their success last season, wasn't Vick a major part of this? In fact, you could argue that Dunn's success was due in large part to Vick being so dominant on the ground.

Oh and don't feed me rhetoric about peewee QBs and Dilfer etc. The fact of the matter is this, Atlanta WOULD NOT have got to the Conference game without Vick. Simple.


First of all, 3 rushing TDs is nothing to write home about. Marc Bulger, Mr. Lightning, had 3 rushing TDs last year.

And arguing that Vick is a major factor is their run success is like saying water is wet. He took 120 attempts! Of course if someone takes 120 rushing attempts, he'll influence the total rushing yards of the team. He had more carries than Duckett!

I'll quote some more numbers from last year. 15 games...16 fumbles. Great stat.

If Atlanta had a competent QB, they could've done better. In the NFC Championship game, he was 11 of 24 for 136 yards...0 TDs...1 INT...4 rushes for 26 yards...no TDs...1 fumble.

It's quite simple that his numbers are garbage. Low total TDs, low passing yardage, low QB rating, high fumbles, low completion %. So he has rushing yardage going for him? Great. It's not enough. QB in the NFL isn't about being flashy and making Sportscenter...it's about producing. He doesn't.


I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree about this one. I'm saying stats can lie and that Vick is the major reason why the Falcons do well (and the record with and without Vick clearly show this), and you're quoting stats. Yes Vick is unorthodox, yes he isn't the best passing QB, yes he's an injury concern and yes he fumbles the ball too much. That's the nature of the beast. Despite all that though, the Falcon's do extremely well when he plays, and i'd take Vick over every QB in the league bar 1 or 2.
aussieboy
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1398
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Lonely island

Previous

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 17:39 hours
(and 36 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact