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Another holdout...were you expecting this guy to not report?

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Postby maddog60 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:44 pm

benm3218 wrote:WR Ward turns down Steelers' offer

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05209/544972.stm

I side with Ward on this. Why shouldn't he paid as an elite?


Umm, did you read the article?

The Steelers made Ward an offer that would make him the highest-paid player in their history, a contract that may include their highest signing bonus, according to a source close to the negotiations.

So far, Ward and his agents have turned them down.

The source told the Post-Gazette the offer also would put Ward among a tier of receivers just below several of the highest paid in the league.

The deal would include a signing bonus higher than the $8.1


So let me get this straight. Ward decides real late to hold out, not giving his team much warning, turns down an offer to be the highest paid Steeler ever, the deal included 8 million in signing bonus, but Walker is still a punk, and Ward is a selfless team player who we should all be rooting for?

I'm sorry, but Ward has no moral highground here.

He would've been paid higher than a lot of players on his team that are just as good at their job as he is at WR. Bettis is a hall of Fame RB, but Ward would've been higher paid than Bettis ever was. Faneca is possibly the best Guard in all of football, if not easily top 3, but he would be making less than Ward with that deal. But Ward felt this deal wasn't good enough? I'm starting to lose my long held respect for Ward here.
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Postby benm3218 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:57 pm

maddog60 wrote:
benm3218 wrote:WR Ward turns down Steelers' offer

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05209/544972.stm

I side with Ward on this. Why shouldn't he paid as an elite?


Umm, did you read the article?

The Steelers made Ward an offer that would make him the highest-paid player in their history, a contract that may include their highest signing bonus, according to a source close to the negotiations.

So far, Ward and his agents have turned them down.

The source told the Post-Gazette the offer also would put Ward among a tier of receivers just below several of the highest paid in the league.

The deal would include a signing bonus higher than the $8.1


So let me get this straight. Ward decides real late to hold out, not giving his team much warning, turns down an offer to be the highest paid Steeler ever, the deal included 8 million in signing bonus, but Walker is still a punk, and Ward is a selfless team player who we should all be rooting for?

I'm sorry, but Ward has no moral highground here.

He would've been paid higher than a lot of players on his team that are just as good at their job as he is at WR. Bettis is a hall of Fame RB, but Ward would've been higher paid than Bettis ever was. Faneca is possibly the best Guard in all of football, if not easily top 3, but he would be making less than Ward with that deal. But Ward felt this deal wasn't good enough? I'm starting to lose my long held respect for Ward here.


Rediculous logic or lack there of that you used.

Let's imagine you were an engineer at a company. Let's say that engineers at other companies that were comparable to you in talent, or possibly not even as good, were making much more money than you. Would it matter one tiny bit that your company was willing to pay you more than any other employee at the company, if it was still less than your fellow engineers at other companies? NO! You would demand to make as much as other top people in your industry.

So, yes I read the article, and while you did too, you obviously didn't put much thought into it. Before you get yourself into a hissy fit and start pecking away at your keyboard to reply, stop and think about the analogy I just used.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:57 pm

I just saw that Ward turned down their offer.

Who wants to bet he gets a better one? Ill say he just saw the best offer he'll get.
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Postby Santacruzer » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:01 pm

A couple of things here:

First, this is not new to the Steelers that Ward was looking to renew/restructure his contract. The holdout news may be new to us (fans), but this should not come as a suprise to the Steelers, unless they were banking on the fact that he seems to be a nice guy, and wouldn't hold out.

Secondly, every year players get paid more and more. Every year you hear about a player getting the most that has ever been paid at that position. It's progress, and goes along with the boatloads of money the NFL continues make. However, I do not agree with this. I wish that there were no such thing as a signing bonus, and all those ways to get around the salary cap. Th salary cap is supposed to be there for a reason (even though it is increasing exponentially every year). One way or another, these increases fall on the fans shoulders. I know most of the money the NFL makes is from the Networks, and advertising, etc. but I think that the NFL has to stay available to the masses. Either cheap (affordable) ticket prices, and non-premium television.

Does Ward deserve to be paid better than 37th highest? IMHO, yes. But let's not get too carried away.
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:10 pm

benm3218 wrote:Rediculous logic or lack there of that you used.


Then enlighten me how Ward has the moral highground on Walker here. I'd be interested to hear someone try that argument.

Let's imagine you were an engineer at a company. Let's say that engineers at other companies that were comparable to you in talent, or possibly not even as good, were making much more money than you. Would it matter one tiny bit that your company was willing to pay you more than any other employee at the company, if it was still less than your fellow engineers at other companies? NO! You would demand to make as much as other top people in your industry.

So, yes I read the article, and while you did too, you obviously didn't put much thought into it. Before you get yourself into a hissy fit and start pecking away at your keyboard to reply, stop and think about the analogy I just used.


Perhaps you misunderstood me. My whole point is that Ward is no different from Walker here, though many people are condemning Javon's behavior and supporting Ward. Your analogy of the work place and demanding a raise because you've earned it is a perfect example of what both players are doing. Their behavior is not different in the least, yet Ward has the public support and I find that absurd.

Also, I'll type it again, as you clearly paid no attention to what I was trying to point out when asking if you read the article:

The source told the Post-Gazette the offer also would put Ward among a tier of receivers just below several of the highest paid in the league.


You asked why shouldn't he have gotten paid like an elite, but from that quote, I can surmise he would've been getting at least top 10 money, if not better. He doesn't deserve the money Moss or TO makes because he doesn't have the deep threat they do. CJ and Holt will make more because they're younger, and Marvin, well Marvin got overpaid, and shouldn't be making much. There's 5 guys that he won't and the Steelers shouldn't pay him more than.

The Steelers were going to pay him like an elite, and he still rejected. Do you understand why I asked if you read the article? It was not to be insulted, it was because I thought you clearly missed that part. Try not to get so defensive.
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Postby benm3218 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:26 pm

Well, my bad on the defensiveness, I clearly did that...

Without hard numbers being stated I suppose its hard to decide if Ward was justified or not. I took the articles comments to mean that he was offered more than other Steelers but still less than the group of recievers he belonged in. I would say Ward was worthy of top 6-8 pay. If you are right and he turned it down, then i would have to change my opinion.

I must admit I failed to read all the posts, so I didn't realize you were referring to Walker. I happen to think he has every right to get paid more too. hahaha
I mean if the guy has a bad injury in 1 year is it fair that he will be out of a job and out of money when he is clearly an incredible player?

;-D
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:58 pm

benm3218 wrote:Well, my bad on the defensiveness, I clearly did that...

Without hard numbers being stated I suppose its hard to decide if Ward was justified or not. I took the articles comments to mean that he was offered more than other Steelers but still less than the group of recievers he belonged in. I would say Ward was worthy of top 6-8 pay. If you are right and he turned it down, then i would have to change my opinion.

I must admit I failed to read all the posts, so I didn't realize you were referring to Walker. I happen to think he has every right to get paid more too. hahaha
I mean if the guy has a bad injury in 1 year is it fair that he will be out of a job and out of money when he is clearly an incredible player?

;-D


Cool, glad we understand each other.
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