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Postby Warpigs » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:43 pm

On NFL Live today, it sounded to me like Sean Salisbury predicted that Terrell will be back on the field by next week possibily, but with another team. Of course, I've learned that Salisbury talks out his butt at times (at least it seems that way). However, you have to wonder with Owens new antics of going to the Bahamas and as other Philly teammates vocalize their frustrations with TO that the Eagles may be leaning now towards making a move?
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Postby eaglesrule » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:45 am

sure I can. I am pretty familiar with what atlanta has done. Yea they were the first to beat GB in Lambeau -- but I think it is pathetically obvious that they were ripe for that in retrospect. I'm not saying vick can't do some good things.

But when the recipe to beat your qb and thus your team is "make their qb throw the ball" -- something is very, very wrong.

They guy has tons of talent, but we need to see more intelligence and consistency out of him before anyone goes around calling him good. He was pretty average last year. The defense seemed to me to have a lot more to do with it.

although, this team reminds me a lot of when donovan was starting out. so they are on their way. I just think it is WAY premature to be pretending they narrowed the gap that much. Like I said, its unlikley that a team with a good Defense, bad wr's and a scrambling qb is going to give the Eagles fits, they were/are that team, and have been doing it better, longer.
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:54 am

eaglesrule wrote:
But when the recipe to beat your qb and thus your team is "make their qb throw the ball" -- something is very, very wrong.

Then how come the Falcons lost like 5 times, with I believe 2 of those Vick not playing? It certainly is easier said than done...
Anyways, this TO mess is turning real ugly, real fast. I don't like it one bit.
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Postby Vick 4 Mayor » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:05 am

eaglesrule wrote:sure I can. I am pretty familiar with what atlanta has done. Yea they were the first to beat GB in Lambeau -- but I think it is pathetically obvious that they were ripe for that in retrospect. I'm not saying vick can't do some good things.

But when the recipe to beat your qb and thus your team is "make their qb throw the ball" -- something is very, very wrong.

They guy has tons of talent, but we need to see more intelligence and consistency out of him before anyone goes around calling him good. He was pretty average last year. The defense seemed to me to have a lot more to do with it.

although, this team reminds me a lot of when donovan was starting out. so they are on their way. I just think it is WAY premature to be pretending they narrowed the gap that much. Like I said, its unlikley that a team with a good Defense, bad wr's and a scrambling qb is going to give the Eagles fits, they were/are that team, and have been doing it better, longer.


well considering you said the way to beat the falcons is to throw the ball, and the falcons will have 2 wr's starting over their #1 wr last year, i think it is safe to say that the gap has been narrowed. he was average last year as a passer (definitely wasn't average as a qb) but is one of the youngest qb's in the league. with vick the falcons record is .500 better than without him. you don't need anymore proof than the year the falcons were 2-10, vick came back from injury, and we ended up 5-11 (beating the eventual nfc champion panthers) at the end of the season to see that he helps win games which is what you want from a qb.

the only starting qb's vick is older than are boller, losman, roethlisberger, eli manning, rex grossman (by 2 months), and alex smith, but i guess we should go ahead and write vick off because there is no reason for him to get better as a passer at the age of 24, right?
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Postby ngub12 » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:44 am

can we keep this a t.o./eagles thread and not a falcons are better than eagles thread. its just annoying.
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:03 am

Vick 4 Mayor wrote:well considering you said the way to beat the falcons is to throw the ball, and the falcons will have 2 wr's starting over their #1 wr last year, i think it is safe to say that the gap has been narrowed. he was average last year as a passer (definitely wasn't average as a qb)


News flash. The QB's job is to pass. Vick can't do that well, hence is not a good QB. Not to mention that his coach had to dumb down the WCO after the first few abysmal games because Vick couldn't adjust to passing instead of trying to run whenever the rush got close. So he certainly wasn't excelling mentally as a QB. When he scrambles, he holds the ball away from his body, one-handed, and not even in a position he could throw it from, hence all of those fumbles he ends up with. So barring the inability to pass, the inability to develop in his 4th year in the NFL, and his inability to protect the ball from defenders, exactly what part of being a QB was he above average at?

and we ended up 5-11 (beating the eventual nfc champion panthers) at the end of the season to see that he helps win games which is what you want from a qb.


Yes, I'm sure Vick's 52.5 QB Rating led the Falcons to victory. Or was it his 2 turnovers and only 1 score? You know its a 2:1 TD to turnover ratio QB's strive for, not the other way around. Vick did nothing more than Doug Johnson would've to win that game.

the only starting qb's vick is older than are boller, losman, roethlisberger, eli manning, rex grossman (by 2 months), and alex smith, but i guess we should go ahead and write vick off because there is no reason for him to get better as a passer at the age of 24, right?


Bringing up age is ridiculous. Is there some magically age that QBs turn before they suddenly know everything. No. Its about his experience. I don't care that he was really young when he entered the NFL, he's been an NFL QB for 4 years. If learning the system is his problem, than those months he's spent injured, what was he doing? Should've been reading the playbook. Bottom line is, he's entering his 5th year in the league. 5th year. This is not some fresh rookie, this is a veteran who should be entering his prime, but instead is being coddled like a rookie as an excuse for why he just can't pass.
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Postby confused_jake » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 am

I was just watching NFL network and they interviewed TO at the airport in Atlanta. I don't think he'll be back on wednesday, because when they asked him about it he said something along the lines of "i'll deal with it in a couple weeks". Which leads me to believe he's staying in atlanta for a while.
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Postby Vick 4 Mayor » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:10 pm

TO didn't go to the bahamas like he said, his publicist said he was going to atlanta

i don't really care about vick's qb rating or what the "job" of the quarterback to do is. the job of nfl players is to win, and that is what vick does. the falcons record with him starting since he was named starter in 2002 is .500 points better with him than without him, or an extra 8 wins per season.

you are right though, vick did nothing to make the falocns 3-1 after being 2-11 with doug johnson. doug johnson probably would've rushed for 141 yards on 14 carries in the game against carolina also.

so if vick's 3 fumbles last year was incredibly bad, how come eagles fans aren't complaining about mcnabb's 2 fumbles?

if you want to go by experience, then let's go by experience. vick has started in the nfl for 2 seasons, or more than all of the other seasoned vets in the nfl who are starting: alex smith, roethlisberger, eli manning, losman, and carson palmer. with his extensive experience though, he isn't going to learn anything else.

and in case you didn't realize it, the falcons got a new head coach last season and implemented an entirely new offense, so how exactly was he supposed to learn jim mora's west coast offense when he was sitting out the season under dan reeves?

you are right though, vick should be entering his prime this year along with all of the other 3rd year starters: leftwich and boller. i hate to break it to you lion and texan fans, but carr and harrington already hit their prime, last year was their 3rd year starting.

oh, and about the fumble thing again, there were only 15 starting qb's who had less fumbles than vick (and a lot of them didn't start the whole season). considering vick was in the top 10 in number of times sacked and #1 in rushing attempts for qb's, i'd say he's holding on to the ball just fine by getting hit more than any other starting qb and being at the median in fumbles for starting qb's.
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Postby maddog60 » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:10 pm

Vick 4 Mayor wrote:i don't really care about vick's qb rating or what the "job" of the quarterback to do is. the job of nfl players is to win, and that is what vick does.


You've got that half right. "Football players" aka a "team" wins. You're giving Vick credit for what 23 other players contributed to and ignoring statistics that specifically rely on his abilities. But whatever, when the Panthers win the NFC South this year, it won't matter.

so if vick's 3 fumbles last year was incredibly bad, how come eagles fans aren't complaining about mcnabb's 2 fumbles?


No, his 16 fumbles were atrocious. Eagles fans don't complain because our QB was the first player to thorw 30+ TDs and less than 10 INTs. McNabb is exceptional at not turning over the ball, Vick is lucky if he scores once for each tunrover he creates. Like last year, he only generated 17 TDs total, but gave up the ball 19 times. That's pathetic for any QB.

oh, and about the fumble thing again, there were only 15 starting qb's who had less fumbles than vick (and a lot of them didn't start the whole season).


See, its bad enough that you hijack this thread, but now you're lying on top of it. Last year:

Bledsoe, Boller, Brady, Brees, Brooks, Bulger, Carr, Collins, Culpepper, Delhomme, Favre, Green, Griese, Harrington, Hasselbeck, P. Manning, McNabb, Palmer, Pennington, Plummer,
Roethlisberger, and Volek.

ALL of those players had less fumbles than Vick. That's 22 QBs, and oh most of them were starters all year. I stopped looking for anyone who might have had more fumbles than Vick after this, but if you can actually find a single QB who fumbled more often last year, by all means, try.

So please, stop hijacking the thread with downright lies to try and justify your homerism.
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Postby Vick 4 Mayor » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:02 pm

maddog60 wrote:
Vick 4 Mayor wrote:i don't really care about vick's qb rating or what the "job" of the quarterback to do is. the job of nfl players is to win, and that is what vick does.


You've got that half right. "Football players" aka a "team" wins. You're giving Vick credit for what 23 other players contributed to and ignoring statistics that specifically rely on his abilities. But whatever, when the Panthers win the NFC South this year, it won't matter.

so if vick's 3 fumbles last year was incredibly bad, how come eagles fans aren't complaining about mcnabb's 2 fumbles?


No, his 16 fumbles were atrocious. Eagles fans don't complain because our QB was the first player to thorw 30+ TDs and less than 10 INTs. McNabb is exceptional at not turning over the ball, Vick is lucky if he scores once for each tunrover he creates. Like last year, he only generated 17 TDs total, but gave up the ball 19 times. That's pathetic for any QB.

oh, and about the fumble thing again, there were only 15 starting qb's who had less fumbles than vick (and a lot of them didn't start the whole season).


See, its bad enough that you hijack this thread, but now you're lying on top of it. Last year:

Bledsoe, Boller, Brady, Brees, Brooks, Bulger, Carr, Collins, Culpepper, Delhomme, Favre, Green, Griese, Harrington, Hasselbeck, P. Manning, McNabb, Palmer, Pennington, Plummer,
Roethlisberger, and Volek.

ALL of those players had less fumbles than Vick. That's 22 QBs, and oh most of them were starters all year. I stopped looking for anyone who might have had more fumbles than Vick after this, but if you can actually find a single QB who fumbled more often last year, by all means, try.

So please, stop hijacking the thread with downright lies to try and justify your homerism.


i'm lying? did you even bother to look up the fumble stats from last year? bledsoe, plummer, and brooks led the nfl in fumbles for qb's with 6, culpepper and carr had 5, collins, delhomme, griese, and breese had 3. so out of those 22 you mentioned, you lied about 9 of them (and volek started like half the season). if you are going to call me a liar, don't pull stats out of your ass. if you still don't believe me click on this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistic ... &year=2004

and out of those 3 fumbles, 0 of them were lost, but i guess vick's 0 turnovers from fumbling killed the falcons last year.

you are the one who is lying, not me. vick had 17 td's and 12 turnovers last year (none of the fumbles were turnovers). and what 16 fumbles are you talking about? he has had 10 in his career, so i have no clue where the number 16 is coming from.

i wasn't attributing all of the wins to vick, but he obviously helps the falcons wins games when you look at their record with and without him since he came here and that's his job, to help win games.
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