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Lloyd for real?

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Postby Matthias » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:14 pm

particularly with eric johnson, rattay's other favorite target, done for the year with this being his first week out.
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Postby Kensat30 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:03 am

Bradon Lloyd = downfield speed
Arnaz Battle = consistency, hands


I would compare them to Boldin and Fitzgerald, although not as talented.


Lloyd = Fitz (playmaker)
Battle = Boldin (possession)


I think both players are good starts when the Niner's are playing at home. The Niner's have had comfortable leads going into the 2nd half against both the Ram's and Cowboy's mostly due to their QB/WR play. Battle catches everything, and when Lloyd gets the ball thrown to him down the field, more often than not he is going to catch it.

Battle went out injured on the last play of the game with the Niner's down by 3 in the 2 minute drill. Otis Amey the punt/kick returner was forced to play as the slot WR due to Battle's absence. The ball gets thrown to Amey, pops off his hands, right into the mitts of a Dallas scumbag. And I'm telling you, Battle makes that play, and the Niner's have a chance to win this game.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:36 am

nice post Kensat.

I see all the Lloyd hype and then look at the numbers and see its Battle that's the primary target in SF - not Lloyd. Lloyd = more yds, Battle = more receptions and looks.

Whats the news on Battle's injury?

Also - whats your take on Eric Johnson now being done for the season? Will there be a vacuum effect, or are we seeing it in Battle? Whats the take on who the new TE will be, and what do you expect from him?
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Postby Kensat30 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:23 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:nice post Kensat.

I see all the Lloyd hype and then look at the numbers and see its Battle that's the primary target in SF - not Lloyd. Lloyd = more yds, Battle = more receptions and looks.

Whats the news on Battle's injury?

Also - whats your take on Eric Johnson now being done for the season? Will there be a vacuum effect, or are we seeing it in Battle? Whats the take on who the new TE will be, and what do you expect from him?


Battle looked like he tweaked an ankle or something, nothing too serious. One of those types of plays where he came off the field right after it happens just to recover for a second, and then the game was over on the next play.
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In regards to Eric Johnson, I think his loss won't affect us that much at all, it may even help. Rattay leaned on Johnson like a crutch, because he was the only guy who could consistently catch the ball and/or get open. Rattay kept throwing it to EJ even when the defenses figured it out and Johnson got double covered with safety help over the top. There was no one else that could get open.

Lloyd is NOT a #1 WR, I think a lot of people figured that out last year after the sleeper/hype machine declared him the next great WR. He needs pressure taken off him to succeed. In comes Battle, a bonafide possession WR that can consistently make catches. Lloyd really struggled last year because they could just pressure him at the line and Rattay was locked onto Johnson over the middle the whole way. Battle gives them a consistent inside/out threat, really helps Lloyd on the crossing routes, etc. Battle's flexibility (pass, run, catch, speed, hands) is just so much more effective than Johnson could ever be.
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Battle is the guy who fills the #1 WR void. He can consistently get open and he makes 3rd down plays. That's the thing you don't see in the statline. He had a rush for like 4 yards right? That came on a 3rd down and 3 play and he almost single-handedly made it happen on a reverse. Battle forces opponents out of the box, because you literally have to cover him or he catches the ball. His hands are as good as, if not better than Eric Johnson's, and when they double cover Battle with a DB/Safety, Lloyd is open down the field. Now if only Morton or Barlow could consistently make a play....
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I don't really expect anything out of the new tight end. Blocker at best, maybe a target or two a game? Honestly, I can't even recall how often they rotate the TEs or who the starter is. The TE is virtually non-existant in this offense. Johnny Morton comes in on a lot of 3 WR sets, and we like to use the RB as an outlet pass in a lot of different formations. So far the lack of a TE hasn't adversely affected us, the WRs are doing a good job.
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Postby MadScott » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:37 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:nice post Kensat.

I see all the Lloyd hype and then look at the numbers and see its Battle that's the primary target in SF - not Lloyd. Lloyd = more yds, Battle = more receptions and looks.

Whats the news on Battle's injury?

Also - whats your take on Eric Johnson now being done for the season? Will there be a vacuum effect, or are we seeing it in Battle? Whats the take on who the new TE will be, and what do you expect from him?


Battle looked like he tweaked an ankle or something, nothing too serious. One of those types of plays where he came off the field right after it happens just to recover for a second, and then the game was over on the next play.
---

In regards to Eric Johnson, I think his loss won't affect us that much at all, it may even help. Rattay leaned on Johnson like a crutch, because he was the only guy who could consistently catch the ball and/or get open. Rattay kept throwing it to EJ even when the defenses figured it out and Johnson got double covered with safety help over the top. There was no one else that could get open.

Lloyd is NOT a #1 WR, I think a lot of people figured that out last year after the sleeper/hype machine declared him the next great WR. He needs pressure taken off him to succeed. In comes Battle, a bonafide possession WR that can consistently make catches. Lloyd really struggled last year because they could just pressure him at the line and Rattay was locked onto Johnson over the middle the whole way. Battle gives them a consistent inside/out threat, really helps Lloyd on the crossing routes, etc. Battle's flexibility (pass, run, catch, speed, hands) is just so much more effective than Johnson could ever be.
----

Battle is the guy who fills the #1 WR void. He can consistently get open and he makes 3rd down plays. That's the thing you don't see in the statline. He had a rush for like 4 yards right? That came on a 3rd down and 3 play and he almost single-handedly made it happen on a reverse. Battle forces opponents out of the box, because you literally have to cover him or he catches the ball. His hands are as good as, if not better than Eric Johnson's, and when they double cover Battle with a DB/Safety, Lloyd is open down the field. Now if only Morton or Barlow could consistently make a play....
----

I don't really expect anything out of the new tight end. Blocker at best, maybe a target or two a game? Honestly, I can't even recall how often they rotate the TEs or who the starter is. The TE is virtually non-existant in this offense. Johnny Morton comes in on a lot of 3 WR sets, and we like to use the RB as an outlet pass in a lot of different formations. So far the lack of a TE hasn't adversely affected us, the WRs are doing a good job.
To expand a bit, I think what you saw during the game yesterday is the ideal of the way the 49ers perceive the 2 WRs. Battle is going to be the more targetted guy, the good hands chain mover. When you aren't paying attention they come over the top long to Lloyd. There's no doubt that Lloyd is an explosive playmaker, he's just lacked consistency.

Good observation about the TE situation in regards to Morton's playing time yesterday too Kensat. I noticed that you saw more Morton for the first time on Sunday. It's really their best shot now that EJ is gone for the year. I wouldn't expect much from the TE position this year either. They drafted 2 kids late in the draft this past year but mainly as blocker's.

I think they are calling Battle's injury a hammy although that's not confirmed. BTW, anyone else notice Rashaun Woods NOT being on the field AGAIN! Waste of space....
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Postby 9er Fan » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:53 pm

He had 6 TDs last year in 13 games. I wouldn't be surprised to see him with 1000 yards and 8 TDs, but if anyone wanted to trade me Wayne for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Lloyd has sick hands and is pretty much a human highlight reel, but has trouble getting separation (although you wouldn't know it against the Cowboys) and is small. Battle will be the recipient of those popular endzone-short-yardage fade patterns.

One last thing to consider is what if Rattay gets hurt (which he seems to do pretty often)? There's a reason he's playing over Alex Smith.
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