chchelse wrote:This compares favorably with other WR such as Holt:63.8%
Holt is exactly who I would compare TW to.
Let's give him a few years before making such a bold statement. It seems at this point he's more likely to underperform his draft position than not.............
chchelse wrote:This compares favorably with other WR such as Holt:63.8%
Holt is exactly who I would compare TW to.
Let's give him a few years before making such a bold statement. It seems at this point he's more likely to underperform his draft position than not.............
Well, I think it's a more fair comparison than Ashley Lelie, who is still trying to become an elite WR after a few years in the league.
Tory was known more for his speed than his hands, but after a couple of years of hard work he is viewed as a complete WR, and a legit #1 WR.
Troy does have a good work ethic, and appears to have a commitment to getting better. Troy is certainly no TO, and Moss is a one of a kind player.
I agree he has a ways to go before being in Tory's league, but the Lelie comparison is sort of a low-ball comparison. I think he has a very good chance to be much more than Lelie or Stallworth (Donte, not John) will ever be.
chchelse wrote:CM: As for TW my information has that he's been thrown to 8 times this year and has 5 catches for 127 yds and a score. In my league he is the 2nd highest scoring rookie WR behind Braylon. At this point he's catching 62.5% of the passes thrown to him. This compares favorably with other WR such as Holt:63.8%, Moss:46.5%, Owens:51.2%, Roy Williams:30.4%.
Yeah, I'm sure he gets half as good of coverage placed on him as those guys. Also, you're talking about 8 targets. Have you ever heard of the terms 'outliers' and 'sample size'. Let him keep that ratio all year long, then we'll talk about his hands improving. 8 attempts is not enough to judge how good a WR's hands are, to suggest such is ludicrous.
Now, back to your comparisons, you compared him to the top guys at WR (Roy excluded). Holt, TO, Moss, CJ, are always going to draw the best CB and a safety over top on their side, simple as that. Troy Williams draws the nickel CB. It's a simple fact that it takes more skill to beat a double coverage than it does a nickel CB.
He torched a backup cornerback once. Thats the only bright spot on his entire resume - oh yeah - besides the fact he's fast.
Obviously this kid is a project. He wasnt that good in college and he's looked terrible so far in MIN where he has gotten the reputation for dropping wide open passes more often than not.
Troy Williamson is a joke and you homers wishing on a prayer crack me up. It was a desperation pick by MIN and you guys know it.
At best - Troy Williamson is Dante Stallworth without the hands - at best.
He was the leading receiver his senior year for entire college football. College stats shouldn't be used to support a player once they enter the NFL, as anything can happen. Some players make a difference, some don't. I'm not saying that he'll be good b/c of his good college numbers, only that college numbers generally don't translate well to pro.
ADMIN edit: please note that the overall sig limit is 12k - thanks! (Thanks Leber) AIM is like multiplayer notepad
chchelse wrote:CM: As for TW my information has that he's been thrown to 8 times this year and has 5 catches for 127 yds and a score. In my league he is the 2nd highest scoring rookie WR behind Braylon. At this point he's catching 62.5% of the passes thrown to him. This compares favorably with other WR such as Holt:63.8%, Moss:46.5%, Owens:51.2%, Roy Williams:30.4%.
Yeah, I'm sure he gets half as good of coverage placed on him as those guys. Also, you're talking about 8 targets. Have you ever heard of the terms 'outliers' and 'sample size'. Let him keep that ratio all year long, then we'll talk about his hands improving. 8 attempts is not enough to judge how good a WR's hands are, to suggest such is ludicrous.
Now, back to your comparisons, you compared him to the top guys at WR (Roy excluded). Holt, TO, Moss, CJ, are always going to draw the best CB and a safety over top on their side, simple as that. Troy Williams draws the nickel CB. It's a simple fact that it takes more skill to beat a double coverage than it does a nickel CB.
I'm just stating the facts. I didn't do a statistical analysis on it, no, that wasn't the point. The point is, based on "reports" he has "bad hands". What was the sample size that that judgement was based upon: exactly zero throws. So I would say 8 is statistically significant compared to a sample size of zero. And what does the coverage have to do with it. He either catches the balls he's supposed to, or he doesn't. And, I certainly wasn't comparing him to Moss, TO, CJ or anyone else for that matter. I was just showing that he catches as high a percentage of the balls thrown to him as many of the top receivers in the league.
So let me ask you: you seem to believe that Williamson has bad hands. What makes you think this. I have 3 games of data to make my assertions. What are yours based on?
chchelse wrote:I'm just stating the facts. I didn't do a statistical analysis on it, no, that wasn't the point. The point is, based on "reports" he has "bad hands". What was the sample size that that judgement was based upon: exactly zero throws. So I would say 8 is statistically significant compared to a sample size of zero. And what does the coverage have to do with it. He either catches the balls he's supposed to, or he doesn't. And, I certainly wasn't comparing him to Moss, TO, CJ or anyone else for that matter. I was just showing that he catches as high a percentage of the balls thrown to him as many of the top receivers in the league.
So let me ask you: you seem to believe that Williamson has bad hands. What makes you think this. I have 3 games of data to make my assertions. What are yours based on?
Because, what you fail to realize is that those reports were not based on 0 throws. Those reports were based on his college play that scouts watched looking for these kind of things. They were based on his combine performances. They were based on the many throws he's had tossed his way in training camp that went on for months. That is why I base my opinion on those reports, which have a lot more than 8 throws to judge him off of.
chchelse wrote:I'm just stating the facts. I didn't do a statistical analysis on it, no, that wasn't the point. The point is, based on "reports" he has "bad hands". What was the sample size that that judgement was based upon: exactly zero throws. So I would say 8 is statistically significant compared to a sample size of zero. And what does the coverage have to do with it. He either catches the balls he's supposed to, or he doesn't. And, I certainly wasn't comparing him to Moss, TO, CJ or anyone else for that matter. I was just showing that he catches as high a percentage of the balls thrown to him as many of the top receivers in the league.
So let me ask you: you seem to believe that Williamson has bad hands. What makes you think this. I have 3 games of data to make my assertions. What are yours based on?
Because, what you fail to realize is that those reports were not based on 0 throws. Those reports were based on his college play that scouts watched looking for these kind of things. They were based on his combine performances. They were based on the many throws he's had tossed his way in training camp that went on for months. That is why I base my opinion on those reports, which have a lot more than 8 throws to judge him off of.
Could you please provide a link to these sources. I like to base my decision on fact, not hearsay.
Here are some links to a number of sources that had profiles on T. Williamson. Not a one of them said he had "bad hands". The worst I could find was that he had "adequate hands". All-in-all, these reports looked very good to me.
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by chchelse » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:18 pm 
