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Thomas Jones is the man in Chicago

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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:09 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:reasons arent excuses - thats the problem.

If a RB cannot run behind a crap OLine, then is it an excuse or a reason?

If a RB takes half a season to learn the system and replace a healthy incombant is that an excuse or a reason?

If a RB gets a fluke injury like TJ had this season is that an excuse or a reason?

You go ahead and call it excuses - I'll maintain reason. }:-)


Anthony Thomas went for 285yds and 2 TDs in his 3 starts behind that same crappy o-line, with that same crappy QB that TJ had. It's most certainly an excuse.

Again, when you get 6 friggin straight years of "reasons" there's more to it than the guy just having bad luck. If that were his one down year, and people said it was for those reasons, ok maybe I'd be a little more accepting. But it wasn't, it was nothing more than the latest excuse for him not going for 1k, appended to the list of all the others.

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Trent Green is a turd. I cant believe all you guys were so hyped on him for so many yrs. Look at his stats - he sucks!!!! Whats that - the fact that his Oline is missing some key players is hurting his numbers? Thats just an excuse - he obviously sucks!


That's your example? Give me a break. Trent Green has been a top 5 QB countless times, including the last two years. Jones' best finishes are RB18 and RB34. They're not even comparable.

benm3218 wrote:Plaxico Burress is a turd. For all those years he had excuses after excuses. They were just excuses, he sucks.

Oh, wait. Maybe they were reasons and he didnt suck as he is now proving, just like TJ will prove.


Plax went for 1000 yards his 2nd year, 1325 his 3rd. He was a top 10 WR each of those years, something TJ still hasn't done in his SIXTH year.

Seriously, these are your people's examples? They don't even come close to comparing. I can't get over this, are you guys just pulling out totally random irrelevant names out of your hats?

If TJ had finished as a top 3-10 RB two years in a row, then had a couple down years it would be a different story. But TJ has never had one of those years. He's been living off "reasons" for him sucking every year.

Mookie4ever wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:It would be one thing if this was a first time thing for TJ, or if he had produced like Deuce has even ONCE before.

This is year number SIX now for TJ. Something ALWAYS seems to come up. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice well, you know the rest. So what happens with fool me six times? It gets to a point where when there's some excuse coming up EVERY year there's more to it than just mere chance.

I've been saying these first few weeks that Thomas Jones has come up with SOMETHING, some excuse, some injury, every year to kill his brief stretch of good games. I've said all along that he's done it five times before, and he WILL do it again, so please excuse me if I'm not in the least bit surprised that he's doing it again.


I have a thread here FB where you basically say that it is impossible to predict injuries and you use this argument to support your boy Portis. I think that if you like the guy you say that you cannot predict injuries and if you don't like him you say that he is injury prone.


I also once said that drafting a TE in the 3rd round was a huge draft blunder, yet I now draft TE's in the 3rd/4th in just about every league I'm in. Things change with experience.

Nonetheless, I never said TJ would get hurt. I said SOMETHING would come up for him. If this were just an issue of TJ getting hurt a couple times that would be one thing, but that's not the issue. Constant injuries are just ONE of the "reasons" TJ hasn't put it together. There's a laundry list of others to go with it, all I said is that SOME "excuse" would pop up for TJ, because the fact of the matter is that the guy just can't cut it as a feature back, and rather than dealing with that people would rather make up some new "reason" every year.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:21 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:It would be one thing if this was a first time thing for TJ, or if he had produced like Deuce has even ONCE before.

This is year number SIX now for TJ. Something ALWAYS seems to come up. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice well, you know the rest. So what happens with fool me six times? It gets to a point where when there's some excuse coming up EVERY year there's more to it than just mere chance.

I've been saying these first few weeks that Thomas Jones has come up with SOMETHING, some excuse, some injury, every year to kill his brief stretch of good games. I've said all along that he's done it five times before, and he WILL do it again, so please excuse me if I'm not in the least bit surprised that he's doing it again.


I have a thread here FB where you basically say that it is impossible to predict injuries and you use this argument to support your boy Portis. I think that if you like the guy you say that you cannot predict injuries and if you don't like him you say that he is injury prone.


I also once said that drafting a TE in the 3rd round was a huge draft blunder, yet I now draft TE's in the 3rd/4th in just about every league I'm in. Things change with experience.


Well....at least you are consistent. You consistently change position on issues that you feel strongly about :-b There is the TE issue, you can predict injuries/you can't, Shaun Alexander, I predict that next year you will reverse yourself on TJ as well and say that he is the second coming of Marshall Faulk.
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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:It would be one thing if this was a first time thing for TJ, or if he had produced like Deuce has even ONCE before.

This is year number SIX now for TJ. Something ALWAYS seems to come up. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice well, you know the rest. So what happens with fool me six times? It gets to a point where when there's some excuse coming up EVERY year there's more to it than just mere chance.

I've been saying these first few weeks that Thomas Jones has come up with SOMETHING, some excuse, some injury, every year to kill his brief stretch of good games. I've said all along that he's done it five times before, and he WILL do it again, so please excuse me if I'm not in the least bit surprised that he's doing it again.


I have a thread here FB where you basically say that it is impossible to predict injuries and you use this argument to support your boy Portis. I think that if you like the guy you say that you cannot predict injuries and if you don't like him you say that he is injury prone.


I also once said that drafting a TE in the 3rd round was a huge draft blunder, yet I now draft TE's in the 3rd/4th in just about every league I'm in. Things change with experience.


Well....at least you are consistent. You consistently change position on issues that you feel strongly about :-b There is the TE issue, you can predict injuries/you can't, Shaun Alexander, I predict that next year you will reverse yourself on TJ as well and say that he is the second coming of Marshall Faulk.


I still want you to point out where I said that you can predict injuries. All I said was TJ would come up with something as an excuse this year, be it another injury, one of the handful of other things that have "come up" to stop him, or something new.

And the TE thing only shows that I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and adjust the way I play accordingly. I'm not here just to argue with people and get off on feeling macho by being right about things, I'm here for the same reason everyone else should be, to get better and do well at fantasy football. I think that actually listening to someone's arguement with an open mind and the idea that they may have a point rather than looking at someone's arguement as a way to just shoot them down and try to make them look bad whether they make a good point or not says a lot more about my side of the arguement than someone who is always just totally close-minded and thinks they're right even when proven wrong.

My first year of fantasy football I drafted Peyton Manning #1 overall. If I never learned from mistakes and arguements I was wrong in, I would still be that guy sitting at the bottom of the league with my #1 QB and lack of RB's every year. We learn from every year of experience.

Likewise, you're not going to see me drafting Clinton Portis over Shaun Alexander even though I argued for 17 pages that he should be 2 years ago. If we were all forced to keep the same viewpoints we had years ago despite the experiences we've had in between, we'd all be fielding pretty lousy teams.

I'm not sure why you seem to be so bitter over me saying that TJ was your worst pick, in an article where I was listing everyon'e's worst picks. From an FF perspective, even if TJ never plays another snap this season he would've ended up being good value where you got him, so I was certainly wrong about saying he was your worst pick and I'm not trying to deny that. Wasn't that the whole reason we all went through that whole process? How many times was it said in those threads that it would be fun to look back at the end of the year and see how wrong all our predictions were because of the fickle nature of FF? I assure you that won't be the only worst/best pick I got wrong in that article. That doesn't have anything to do with the arguement at hand here, regarding TJ as a featured NFL RB. He has put together good strings of games before, but something always seems to "come up". Why is year 6 going to be any different than years 1-5?

TJ is a perennial tease. You're best off selling high after any stretch of good games he has, because again, we're in year 6 now and he has yet to show that he can sustain that for any longer than a handful of games.
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Postby eaglesrule » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:28 pm

That's your example? Give me a break. Trent Green has been a top 5 QB countless times, including the last two years. Jones' best finishes are RB18 and RB34. They're not even comparable.

trent green has not ever been a top 5 REAL nfl qb. lets face facts. when you consider wins and stats he can't possibly stack up.

he has to beat out: brady, manning, farve, mcnabb, culpepper (better stats and an appearance in the nfc title game) -- so he is not superior to four contemproaries. Im not even feeling like he is better thanbulger, sot hat is five, and hasselbeck is a reasonable comparison as well.
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Postby footballchick23 » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:45 pm

Ahem...care to weigh in now gentlemen? Granted, it was the worst rush defense in the NFL, but come on.....
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:14 am

Free Bagel wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:reasons arent excuses - thats the problem.

If a RB cannot run behind a crap OLine, then is it an excuse or a reason?

If a RB takes half a season to learn the system and replace a healthy incombant is that an excuse or a reason?

If a RB gets a fluke injury like TJ had this season is that an excuse or a reason?

You go ahead and call it excuses - I'll maintain reason. }:-)


Anthony Thomas went for 285yds and 2 TDs in his 3 starts behind that same crappy o-line, with that same crappy QB that TJ had. It's most certainly an excuse.

Again, when you get 6 friggin straight years of "reasons" there's more to it than the guy just having bad luck. If that were his one down year, and people said it was for those reasons, ok maybe I'd be a little more accepting. But it wasn't, it was nothing more than the latest excuse for him not going for 1k, appended to the list of all the others.


So Atrain put up statistically comparable numbers to TJ once TJ went down with an injury. More support to the argument that situation determines production. Dont forget - if situation determines production, then we can make the "excuse" that TJ sucked in ARI because, well, ARI sucked as a team.

There goes the first 3 years - written off as being in a bad situation.

Then, we already know that he took over the starting job in TB in year 4 - and looked pretty good with only 6 or so games to his credit there.

Last yr he was the 13th most productive RB from a yardage standpoint even though he was injured and missed a few games.

Im still wondering where those 6 years of sucking come from?
Free Bagel wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Trent Green is a turd. I cant believe all you guys were so hyped on him for so many yrs. Look at his stats - he sucks!!!! Whats that - the fact that his Oline is missing some key players is hurting his numbers? Thats just an excuse - he obviously sucks!


That's your example? Give me a break. Trent Green has been a top 5 QB countless times, including the last two years. Jones' best finishes are RB18 and RB34. They're not even comparable.


Apparantly you missed my point. It has nothing to do with Trent Green actually - just the idea that I turned a situation where a players surroundings have changed for the worse as we witnessed his numbers plummet due to it. I sarcastically took the argument you did and ignored his poor situation this yr and came to the conclusion that he sucked. As wildly stupid as that seemed to you, it is exactly the same way I see you and Kensat completely writing off TJ and ignoring the situations he was in to come to your conclusion.


Just for the record - heading into tonights game, TJ is the #3 overall fantasy RB. Maybe Edge and SJax will both have great games and knock TJ out of the top 5, but Im guessing that wont happen. Basically at this point you are trying to convince us that the fact that TJ is a top 5 RB throught 6 weeks is based solely on luck since TJ is a turd and cant actually run well at all. This might be one of those times you reconcider your position. ;-)
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Postby aussieboy » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:31 am

Do you guys think it's telling that TJ got the start against the Vikings? I mean he has been doing well so the coaching staff couldnt really justify benching him, but with him being injured this week I thought it wouldve been the perfect opportunity for the Bears to sit TJ out and get a look at the RB they drafted in the first round.

Noone wouldve questioned the decision since they coulda said TJ was injured, and it wouldve been a good opportunity to give Benson a big workload and see what he could do. Instead they kept Benson on the bench and went with TJ. I think that says something.

Do people see Benson taking over the full time role any time soon? ie is he worth trading for?
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Postby benm3218 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:03 am

NO!!! Benson is a TURD.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha eat the turd cake, free bagel.
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Postby Sixxgunn » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:16 am

aussieboy wrote:Do you guys think it's telling that TJ got the start against the Vikings? I mean he has been doing well so the coaching staff couldnt really justify benching him, but with him being injured this week I thought it wouldve been the perfect opportunity for the Bears to sit TJ out and get a look at the RB they drafted in the first round.

Noone wouldve questioned the decision since they coulda said TJ was injured, and it wouldve been a good opportunity to give Benson a big workload and see what he could do. Instead they kept Benson on the bench and went with TJ. I think that says something.

Do people see Benson taking over the full time role any time soon? ie is he worth trading for?


TJ got the start because he earned it. He is proving he can play injured,and Benson, not Jones is the turd. I just hate that we have a 4th round turd on the bench. No, Benson will not take over soon, not as long as injury doesn't sideline TJ.
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Postby footballchick23 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:17 am

benm3218 wrote:NO!!! Benson is a TURD.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha eat the turd cake, free bagel.


Couldn't have said it better myself!
Benson = TURD!!!!

From Yahoo:
John Mullin, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears RB Cedric Benson struggled Week 6 against the Minnesota Vikings. He gained only two yards on three carries and also missed a blocking assignment that almost resulted in a turnover and a Vikings defensive score. Benson was supposed to help OT John St. Clair but Minnesota Vikings DL Lance Johnstone blew by him and sacked QB Kyle Orton, forcing a fumble that was returned for a touchdown before the play was nullified by a penalty. After that, RB Adrian Peterson was used in relief of RB Thomas Jones.

Oopsy...looks like someone is still in the doghouse!

When a player is "injured", gets the starting nod anyway and scores 2 TD's is about the farthest thing from a turd as possible!

Eat it TJ skeptics!
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