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Matt Schaub v. Mike Vick

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Postby Ricky_Christ » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:21 am

Dr. Duran Duran wrote:Yeah, but Mike Vick equals merchandi$ing!!!

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lmao, I think it's pronounced moichindizing... ;-D

I'll agree that Vick has problems, but I think anyone calling him a bad passing QB is a fool. He has a cannon for an arm & good accuracy...yes he needs to learn to stay in the pocket more, rely more on his passing ability...

Just picture what's happening to C-pep in reverse. If Vick had a TO, a Moss, a CJ...man, even a Gates, he'd be a true force to be reckoned with (in FF & the NFL).

IMO. :-D
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Postby lmcjaho » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:42 am

Dr. Duran Duran wrote:Yeah, but Mike Vick equals merchandi$ing!!!

Image


I believe that's spelt (phonetically) Moichandizing!

EDIT - Holy crap - I didn't see Ricky's post until after I submitted mine... That's some funny sh*t right there...
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Postby Jonny Moxon » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:23 am

Ricky_Christ wrote:
Dr. Duran Duran wrote:Yeah, but Mike Vick equals merchandi$ing!!!

Image


lmao, I think it's pronounced moichindizing... ;-D

I'll agree that Vick has problems, but I think anyone calling him a bad passing QB is a fool. He has a cannon for an arm & good accuracy...yes he needs to learn to stay in the pocket more, rely more on his passing ability...

Just picture what's happening to C-pep in reverse. If Vick had a TO, a Moss, a CJ...man, even a Gates, he'd be a true force to be reckoned with (in FF & the NFL).

IMO. :-D


Looking at his passer rating, i would have to say he's a bad passer. He has a talented arm, but it takes more than that to be a good nfl QB. There are a lot of pitchers out there who throw 95+, but work at Best Buy now.
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Postby Jonny Moxon » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:32 am

2004 stats for Vick:

-78.1 passer rating, tied for 20th with tim rattay

-14 TD's/ 12 INT's

-56.4% completion percentage(27th in the league)
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Postby josebach » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:50 am

deluxe_247 wrote:Image


Now that's funny!!!

Jonny Moxon wrote:2004 stats for Vick:

-78.1 passer rating, tied for 20th with tim rattay

-14 TD's/ 12 INT's

-56.4% completion percentage(27th in the league)


Couldn't remember yesterday the Falcon's record without him and didn't want to figure it out, but I just found it.

The Falcon's record since Vick joined the Falcons in 2001
With Vick:
26-13-1
Without Vick:
9-20

Why exactly do the Falcon's play so much better when Vick starts? Well, that might very well be debateable. There is, however, absolutely no doubt that they are a better team when he is on the field.
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Postby Plindsey88 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:07 am

josebach wrote:
Why exactly do the Falcon's play so much better when Vick starts?



Because prior to drafting Schaub, they didn't have a suitable QB to back him up....
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Postby josebach » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:28 am

I think it would be interested to see what Dunn's numbers are in games that Vick starts compared to when he doesn't. Vick's presence forces the opponents defense to spend a lot of their resources on him. This HAS to open up holes elsewhere.
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Postby Challie » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:12 am

I said this earlier, but fewer passes shortens the game. Fewer possessions for both teams, shrinks Vick's stats, but shrinks the opponents stats as well. I would love to see the numbers for offensive plays run for Atlanta vs. opponent with Vick and without Vick.
... in my opinion, of course - but that should always go without saying.
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Postby Kensat30 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:51 am

BrutallyHuge wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Michael Vick wins game, it's as simple as that.


No offense, but I can't stand it when people say Mike Vick wins games.

These same people say that defenses win championships and discredit Trent Dilfer. There's a lot of hypocrisy.

First of all, Atlanta had a pretty sick defense last year. #1 in sacks, #9 in INTs, #8 in rush defense, #8 in forced fumbles, tied for 3rd in defensive TDs. They were turnover machines.

Second of all, they had the best rushing attack in the NFL (I know Vick is part of that).

You simply don't know how a good pocket QB would do in Atlanta with that defense and that running game (a QB who doesn't turn the ball over much). No one really knows.

But to say that Mike Vick wins games is a slap in the face to that defense, that O-Line Coach, Dunn & Duckett, and the others in that organization. A football team wins games. And judging from Vick's stats, he's not really helping all that much. That's just my opinion.




I know this is all hypothetical, but if I had a time machine I would be willing to bet money that a Vick led Falcon's team beats New England last Sunday.

Honestly, despite the statline, Schaub did not look that good at all. He passed for more yards than Vick ever has in his career, but they still lost the game. You can't bring the blitz against Vick, it's almost impossible to stop him from running for a first down.

And when I say that Vick wins football games, I mean a Vick-led Falcon's team wins football games.
Last edited by Kensat30 on Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kensat30 » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:03 am

maddog60 wrote:
josebach wrote:The Falcons are 26-13-1 with Vick as the starting QB. Without him, they have a losing record. I'm not a huge Vick fan, but you have to give credit where credit is due.


You're right give credit where credit is due.

In the 39 games Vick has started since 2002 the Atlanta defense has allowed an average 18.6 points per game.

During the 14 games others have QBed for Atlanta since 2002, the defense has allowed an average 27 points per game.

In 2003 the 16th ranked (the average) offense scored 19.6 points per game, and 20 teams total averaged more than 18.6 points per game.

In 2004 the 16th ranked offense scored 21.2 points per game, and 23 teams averaged more than 18.6 points per game.

This year, 19 teams are scoring more than 18.6 points per game.

Now, the majority of the NFL's offense year to year are able to post enough points that they should have a winning record (offense scoring more on average than the defense lets up) if they had Atlanta's defense.

Rather than saying "Oh, so-and-so is in the lineup, he must be the reason why they win," wouldn't it make sense to look at why they win, and see what correlations exist.

The correlation is simple, when Atlanta's defense performs, they often win. When Atlanta's defense does not, they often lose. Give the credit where the credit is due, this team is carried by that defense.


This might be true if defense was independent of offense. But where is the analysis of time of possession, game flow, field position, etc. A good offense helps a defense, just as much as a poor offense hurts a defense. Look no further than the Baltimore Raven's or the Buffalo Bill's...

With Atlanta's 1-2-3 punch running the ball, there really isn't another example of that in the NFL. They can control the clock, sustain drives, win the field position battle without even throwing the ball! Other teams would kill to have that kind of attack.. but no one has the types of weapons that Atlanta has because they have Vick.

Put Vick on the Ravens? They're a winning team this year.

Put Vick on the Bill's and they might be undefeated.


Every facet of the team contributes to the end stats of the players on offense, defense, even special teams. The only true measure of the players on any given team is their winning percentage IMO. Would there even be a discussion with Brady as the best QB in the NFL if not for the Super Bowls and come from behind victories where VINATIERI WINS THE GAME FOR THEM? The Patriot's defense won those championships after all right?
Last edited by Kensat30 on Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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