Harrington Toast....Garcia? - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Harrington Toast....Garcia?

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby skibrett15 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:40 am

The lions are in such limbo that I can't even fathom why they don't just pick a strategy and stick with it. They have to have an identity, aside from bad qb play. Work Kevin Jones more. Realize that your wrs aren't really that good, and Joey can only do so little... I think it will start with the return of the FB, and a committment to Kevin Jones both in the running game and in the passing game.
ADMIN edit: please note that the overall sig limit is 12k - thanks!
(Thanks Leber)
AIM is like multiplayer notepad
skibrett15
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 5057
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: At the Mafia Cafe

Postby FatFoot » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:52 am

You can make just as valid "Predictions" about any NFC North team taking the division. There isn't one that is that much better or worse than the others. GB is the only one with a real QB playing like a real QB. Chicago is the only one with a defense and running game. The Vikings have a lot of talent that just can't do anything right now. The Lions are like a great team Rubiks Cube and no one can make the right moves to get it straightened out.

With the talent in Detroit, I would think they HAVE to win it. But after watching these weeks, I really have my doubts. All it would take would be Chicago developing a passing game, or GB shoring up its defense and o line (maybe the most likely possibility in the bunch) or Burleson coming back and there being a real offense in Minny, and everything is upside down again.
FatFoot
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 3259
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: In the Belly of the Beast

Postby wizbang » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:06 pm

Harrington definitely is a terrible QB. He is the root of all problems in Detroit. He is well into his fourth season and only getting worse. He has no composure, no presence and his teammates clearly hate him (you can see it in their faces even without the outbursts).

Bottom line: the team is holding on until Garcia returns.... for better or worse.

Also, Kevin Jones has been terrible so far this year. He's running very hard but with no vision. I think the combo of him and Joey undermines the OL who aren't great or anything but are consistenly being made to look worse than they are.
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
wizbang
Special Teams Staff
Special Teams Staff


Posts: 167
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:19 pm

wizbang wrote:Harrington definitely is a terrible QB. He is the root of all problems in Detroit. He is well into his fourth season and only getting worse. He has no composure, no presence and his teammates clearly hate him (you can see it in their faces even without the outbursts).

Bottom line: the team is holding on until Garcia returns.... for better or worse.

Also, Kevin Jones has been terrible so far this year. He's running very hard but with no vision. I think the combo of him and Joey undermines the OL who aren't great or anything but are consistenly being made to look worse than they are.


Boy - I really disagree here. Joey is a bad QB, but he is far from the root of Det's problems - far far from it. The "stud" WRs have been pathetic - they cant get off the line cleanly and still have problems dropping balls, not to mention the fact that they obviously play like inexperienced 1st and 2nd yr players since thats what they are. Joey is bad - Im not arguing that - but the problems in DET's offense go much farther than the QB.

Your comments about KJones are just far off base. The Oline has done nothing for him in terms of opening holes and the passing game is a joke. The Oline in DET is poor and must shoulder a lot of the blame right now.

Singling out Joey and KJ as the root of problems in DET is exactly what I disagree with. Aside from Joey - the OLine has been worse than last yr, the WRs are playing poorly, the playcalling is atrocious, the rotating RB situation is a joke, and the players clearly have no fire or discipline. Dont scapegoat Joey - and for damn sure dont scapegoat KJones, he's the best player on this team by quite a lot.
Cornbread Maxwell
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 5924
Joined: 7 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby maddog60 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:20 pm

Since drafting him, this organization has done everything to give Joey Harrington as much an opportunity for success.

2003 - they draft highly touted Charles Rogers with a top 1st round pick.
2004 - they spend their first two draft picks on another WR and a RB. They sign ex-Patriot lineman Woody.
2005 - They draft yet another highly touted WR with another top 10 overall pick. They sign former Indy starters Demulling and Pollard.

In three years, two solid offensive lineman signings, 3 early 1st round WRs, and a top notch RB prospect. If Harrington can't show significant progress with all of that support, he's got to go. Who can they turn to, I don't know. I don't think a rookie would be the best, because it'd virtually be starting over, but the market on solid veteran QBs is at negative depth right now.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby The_Dude » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:28 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
wizbang wrote:Harrington definitely is a terrible QB. He is the root of all problems in Detroit. He is well into his fourth season and only getting worse. He has no composure, no presence and his teammates clearly hate him (you can see it in their faces even without the outbursts).

Bottom line: the team is holding on until Garcia returns.... for better or worse.

Also, Kevin Jones has been terrible so far this year. He's running very hard but with no vision. I think the combo of him and Joey undermines the OL who aren't great or anything but are consistenly being made to look worse than they are.



Boy - I really disagree here. Joey is a bad QB, but he is far from the root of Det's problems - far far from it. The "stud" WRs have been pathetic - they cant get off the line cleanly and still have problems dropping balls, not to mention the fact that they obviously play like inexperienced 1st and 2nd yr players since thats what they are. Joey is bad - Im not arguing that - but the problems in DET's offense go much farther than the QB.

Your comments about KJones are just far off base. The Oline has done nothing for him in terms of opening holes and the passing game is a joke. The Oline in DET is poor and must shoulder a lot of the blame right now.

Singling out Joey and KJ as the root of problems in DET is exactly what I disagree with. Aside from Joey - the OLine has been worse than last yr, the WRs are playing poorly, the playcalling is atrocious, the rotating RB situation is a joke, and the players clearly have no fire or discipline. Dont scapegoat Joey - and for damn sure dont scapegoat KJones, he's the best player on this team by quite a lot.


What surprises me the most is that the defensive stats (aside from points allowed), are pretty good for Detroit. They force a ton of turnovers (2nd in the league in interceptions - 10), and are middle of the pack in points allowed. Everyone thought this team would be an offensive machine, but instead the offense is simply offensive.

CBM's point about the o-line has gotta be right. Yes, Joey is bad, but the O-line has given up 14 sacks in 5 games. I haven't seen the games, but the kind of stats KJ is putting up don't suggest ineffective running... they suggest no holes to run through. A bad running back will get 2 or 3 when there was hole to run through for 6. KJ is getting hit in the backfield, and while he may not be the 2nd coming of Barry, he showed flashes of brilliance last year.
Image

I am the Walrus
The_Dude
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 3481
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 14 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: My ivory tower, where I oversee the intellectual development of America's youth

Postby dream_017 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:31 pm

maddog60 wrote:Since drafting him, this organization has done everything to give Joey Harrington as much an opportunity for success.

2003 - they draft highly touted Charles Rogers with a top 1st round pick.
2004 - they spend their first two draft picks on another WR and a RB. They sign ex-Patriot lineman Woody.
2005 - They draft yet another highly touted WR with another top 10 overall pick. They sign former Indy starters Demulling and Pollard.

In three years, two solid offensive lineman signings, 3 early 1st round WRs, and a top notch RB prospect. If Harrington can't show significant progress with all of that support, he's got to go. Who can they turn to, I don't know. I don't think a rookie would be the best, because it'd virtually be starting over, but the market on solid veteran QBs is at negative depth right now.


Ok here we go:
C Rogers - 9 games played since being drafted
R Williams - 18 games played
M Williams - 5 games played
Some of Joey's other great WRs - Bill Schroeder, A Hakim, S Vines, David Kircus, Scotty Anderson, J. Green, Shawn Jefferson, Reggie Swinton, T Streets. Let me know how it is Joeys fault.
dream_017
Cafe Google
Cafe Google

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 15306
(Past Year: 60)
Joined: 3 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Ford Field: Section - 132; Row - 19; Seat - 11

Postby logan » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:32 pm

2003 - they draft highly touted Charles Rogers with a top 1st round pick.

who has played what 9 games in three seasons. can't really help anyone if you can't stay on the field.

2004 - they spend their first two draft picks on another WR and a RB. They sign ex-Patriot lineman Woody.

a wr who has concentration issues and drops his fare share of passes and overall plays well sporadicaly. jones is good but if you can't pass the ball or mistakes are made he can't really do much either.

2005 - They draft yet another highly touted WR with another top 10 overall pick. They sign former Indy starters Demulling and Pollard.

a wr who hasn't played football in over a year prior to being drafted and in camp. struggling like rookies do.
pollard was a good signing and has been fairly decent. so alittle help.

i'm no harrington appologist but as CBM said it isn't all his fault. he is bad but the situation is worse. the players (altleat at wr and to a lesser extent rb) he is surrounded by are inexperienced and are playing as such.


edit ah well dream beat me to it but still the same theory. ;-)
Image
logan
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 7273
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 4 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby tomkatt » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:45 pm

The Lions, to me, are a classic case of a team that looks pretty good on paper.... but isn't near as good when the games start.

Possible reasons for this:

1. Joey is not the leader the team needs. IMO his teammates just don't believe in him like other teams believe in their QB.

2. Young WR's probably aren't as NFL ready as we all would like to believe. Rogers - lack of calcium and consuming banned substances. R. Williams - very talented, but also seems to attract injuries. M. Williams - seems talented enough, but is still a rook.

3. O-line looked awful this pre-season, and it's carried over into the regular season. It's obviously affecting KJ too.

It's probably going to be near impossible for the Lions to take the next step with Joey as their QB. It seems as if most of his teammates are almost anticipating a change themselves. That can't be good for Joey's confidence level. Tough situation all around. I can't help wonder what's going thru Mariucci's head right now.
"Sometime during the Pats game last week, I decided that Tomlinson was the best overall running back of my lifetime. There's nothing he can't do: deadly receiver, tough inside runner, explosive to the outside, you name it." - ESPN's Bill Simmons
tomkatt
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1470
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Houghton, MI

Postby maddog60 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:05 pm

dream_017 wrote:Let me know how it is Joeys fault.


Because he finally has all of those weapons. Even with Rogers drug problems, he's got his two top prospect WRs, a veteran TE more than proven at receiving, and a RB who looked great last year.

Now, for a QB not to perform at this point, it's time to let him go. You're telling me they shouldn't change QBs? That they should give Harrington another chance? The only reason he lasted this long is because of the injuries he support suffered. Now they're healthy, there's more support than ever, and he's stilling failing. This year he had no more excuses left.
maddog60
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 9758
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

PreviousNext

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 13:49 hours
(and 37 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact