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Keeper League Trade problems - feedback gang?

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Keeper League Trade problems - feedback gang?

Postby lmcjaho » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:30 am

Okay, so my new $$$ league for this year that I joined was a total points keeper league with 12 teams and 4 keepers each. The league has been in play for a half-decade or so and I took over the last place team from last year and have so far managed to parlay myself into 3rd overall (a FG out of 2nd - longshot to catch 1st) and I am having a good time.

Unfortunately a situation has come up which has caused a ton of strife in the league and a number of guys are now apparently on the fence on whether or not they will be back because of it.

The issue at hand is that 3 or 4 owners are all workmates and there has been past instances where collusion was suspected (although I have to admit I have not seen anything blatant in my time in the league) and now there is a trade that has half the league up in arms and the other half up in arms in defense of it...

Essentially the situation is this:

Team A is in 4th (a figgie and a PAT behind me) and Team B is in 7th (100 points behind us and almost 240 out of 1st). Owners A and B work together and so they are more prone to make trades with each other first (they say it's because nobody else makes offers and they are not acting together - I don't know myself) before trading with anyone else in the league. Anyways, Team B gambled on keeping Culpepper and LT (it's a salary league and those 2 alone were over 33% of his available salary) at the beginning of the year and as a result had to go "budget" on the rest of his roster, so even his holding 7th position to date is the result of a combination of smoke, mirrors, and general ineptitude on the part of the 8th-12th place teams... Knowing that his chances are slim and none for this year with things the way they stand now, he has apparently decided to make some deals to build for next year, and herein lies the problem.

The trade that has everyone so divided is this:

TEAM A - GIVES
    Fred Taylor
    Marv Harrison
    1st and 3rd rounders from next year's draft
TEAM B - GIVES
    LT
    Nate Burleson

What has happened now is the 1st place team (and a couple of vocal others) has accused team B of dumping his Stud to Team A just so A can catch him, while B is saying he is merely making the best deal to improve his own chances of winning next year and the league seems to have divided just about down the middle with regards to who they are supporting...

The issue is getting particularly heated because our Commish originally had veto rights all to himself but changed it to a wishy-washy system where we have a majority vote which he will bear in mind before he makes the final decision. The funny thing is this happened after another trade earlier in the season (also between these two, involving Deuce Mac after the injury where Team B said he was trading for the future also) was nixed by him and they raised a stink about it and got support from a number of the other owners and he decided he didn't want the responsibility all to himself anymore since he was getting blasted for it...

So now the league is polarizing around the issue, with other guys in the bottom ranks threatening to dump their studs to the others in the top tier for picks too in order to "balance" the situation (Moss&Moss for Engram&Welker and a 1st was offered to the current points leader for example)...

My personal opinion is that the fact that B is willing to trade someone away this year to build a better team for next is fine, but a 1st+3rd (which is essentially a 5th+7th since we have 4 keepers each) is nowhere near enough to justify trading LT since he will definitely not find an LT calibre back in either of those rounds... (we start 2RBs plus a flex so there are VERY FEW RBs who are not rookies available in the 1st)

-------------------------------

This is my first Keeper league, so I am not really clear on the commonly accepted practices of trading for the future at this point - any Keeper vets have some valuable insight to interject here? Any particularly good points may be brought up to the Commish who has called for a league discussion (in particular he has asked our normally less vocal members to contribute but I plan on getting more than my $0.02 in anyway) before he makes a final ruling on it on Saturday...
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Postby Pete123444 » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:49 am

With 4 keepers I don't think Harrison or Taylor will be keepers although I don't know his roster and both possibly could be, LT would definitely be.. But if they are not keepers and he is tanking this season for next years chances, Then he is trading LT for probably late 5th and late 7th rd picks. Terribly lopsided trade. Many people think you shouldn't veto a trade just because it's a bad one(only for collusion). I however, am not of that mind. Bad trades destroy keeper and dynasty leagues. I would veto this trade. Or if that weren't an option, I would at least express my extreme concern and dislike for this trade.
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Postby lmcjaho » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:10 am

Pete123444 wrote:With 4 keepers I don't think Harrison or Taylor will be keepers although I don't know his roster and both possibly could be, LT would definitely be.. But if they are not keepers and he is tanking this season for next years chances, Then he is trading LT for probably late 5th and late 7th rd picks. Terribly lopsided trade. Many people think you shouldn't veto a trade just because it's a bad one(only for collusion). I however, am not of that mind. Bad trades destroy keeper and dynasty leagues. I would veto this trade. Or if that weren't an option, I would at least express my extreme concern and dislike for this trade.


Well, at this point the only SURE keeper on his team would be Portis IMO, so he may end up keeping Taylor and Marv - would it be a fair trade then in your opinion?

His roster as it is pre-trade:

QB D. Culpepper
WR Ma. Clayton
WR Ji. Smith
WR B. Edwards
RB C. Portis
RB L. Tomlinson
TE T. Heap
W/R C. Perry
K R. Bironas
DEF Tennessee

BN M. Jenkins
BN B. Roethlisberger
BN N. Burleson
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Postby Pete123444 » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:23 am

His keepers would likely be;

before trade

Culpepper
J Smith
Portis
LT

After trade

Culpepper
Harrison
Taylor
Portis

SO he's upgrading at Wr a bit and downgrading at RB quite a bit. Plus recieving a late 5th and late 7th(1 and 3 Picks). Still a lopsided trade. Harrison and Taylor aren't exactly spring chickens. Not as bad as I originally thought, but still a bad trade. He could get much more value trading in so many other ways. But I guess I would ultimately hear his arguements and reasonings and probably let this one go through if he had a decent arguement.
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Postby lmcjaho » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:01 pm

Thanks Petey...

And thanks to all you other vocal Cafers for your brilliant insight on this matter - you were oh so helpful... :-?
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Postby smackthefirst » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:40 pm

This issue always becomes apparent in keeper leagues. You really should have some set guidelines so these occurances do not happen. In this case I would say the trade is not fair. I would ask the owner giving up LT to explain why he thinks it is a good deal.

In my league, we have rules where only so many picks can be traded per team per year. This essentially makes it so a team can't decide to dump his players in hopes of improving next year. The reason being that it would obviously make one team too strong.

And above all else, LT is the best keeper out there. Any team claiming to want to rebuild would not be giving up LT unless he was getting to solid keepers in return.

Of course, my whole argument could be dashed due to the fact you have a salary league. If LT simply costs "too much" to build a solid team around, then I can see it happening.

All I can say is good luck with this one. If it doesn't work out, Iwould try to contact the owners to set up a new keeper league next year with a fresh draft to start with rules in place about trades for the future.
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Postby lmcjaho » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:59 pm

End result was the Commish weighed in and said the deal would only be accepted with some modifications (which were still in Team A's favor heavily) and in the end Team A dropped the trade in the interest of league harmony... Looks like Taylor wasn't a bad guy to have this weekend anyway though...
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