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Larry Fitzgerald's Performance Without Boldin?

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Postby cooleyhigh » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:41 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Actually, JSmith had his best yr ever the yr that McCardell had his worst yr (1999) during that stretch. Then McCardell had arguably his best season once he left for TB (2003). I dont see evidence of BOTH these WRs increasing their averages at the same time at all.


But actually in 1999 McCardell was playing and drawing coverage not sitting on the sideline like Boldin will be.

1995
Smith - 288 yards 3 TD's
McCardell - 709 4 TD's

1996 (playing together for first time)
Smith - 1244 yards 7 TD's
McCardell - 1129 yards 3 TD's

I see this as evidence of both WR's increasing their average at the same time :-?

And what happens in 2002 when they seperate?
Smith - 350 yard decrease from season before 1 less TD
McCardell - 500 yard decrease
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Postby houstonoilers » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:02 pm

I got to mention my guys

1986

Drew Hill 1062 yards
Ernest Givens 1112 yards

1990

Drew Hill 1019 yards
Ernest Givens 979

Warren Moon 4689 33 TDS and 13 INTS....they all made the Pro Bowl that year.
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Postby houstonoilers » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:12 pm

I know this isnt the place to post it but hell why not. I went and looked at Jerr Rice numbers again and almost crapped my pants.

Yards -TDs

927-3
1570-15
1078-22
1306-9
1483-17
1502-13
1206-14
1201-10
1503-15
1499-13
1848-15.....what in the world is this?
1254-8

Thats just from 85-86...freakin monster numbers, man.....MONSTER!!!
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Postby chchelse » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:21 pm

BrutallyHuge wrote:Terrell Owens and Todd Pinkston


Huge, you're such an ass.......... ;-D
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Postby bagobonez » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:39 am

Michael Irvin and Alvin Harper.
"90% of the game is half mental" - John Madden
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:26 am

I guess I still dont see a significant correlation that 2 good WRs increase BOTH of their stats.
Ward and Buress did it for one yr.
Price and Moulds is a good example.
Cooley - you used JSmith's rookie yr as evidence dude (cmon now) - clearly they did it for maybe one yr at most - but when JSmith has his best yr the yr that McCardell is injured, that really shoots holes in that example.
Hill and Givens - again, statistically speaking, these players didnt increase their total simultaniously as they played together. That doesnt mean there wasnt a correlation though - as both players yardage numbers were mostly affected by Warren Moon than anything else - you can see a distinct fall off the yr that Moon was injured (1992). Even still, Givens set his career TD record the yr after Hill left.
Harper and Irvin arent even close - unless I'm looking at this wrong, Harper didnt crack 900 yds once and Irvin had his 2 best yrs in 91 and 95 - yrs that Harper was injured or was a rookie.

I'm sorry, but I dont buy the theory that 2 good WRs on the same team actually help each other statistically speaking. Yes - in the NFL, 2 good WRs obviously help the team as its more difficult to cover both, but from statistical evidence, they also cut into each others numbers.

I guess the challenge is still out there - other than Moulds/Price for 1 yr and Ward/Buress for 1 yr, I still dont see enough evidence to think that 2 good WRs playing together will actually increase BOTH of their production. Anyone else feel like proving me wrong?
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Postby cooleyhigh » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:39 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Cooley - you used JSmith's rookie yr as evidence dude (cmon now) - clearly they did it for maybe one yr at most - but when JSmith has his best yr the yr that McCardell is injured, that really shoots holes in that example.


Jimmy Smith appeared in 7 games for the Dallas Cowboys in 1992 maybe this does not count as rookie year?

1999 the year you claim McCardell is injured he appeared in 16 games had 78 receptions for 891 yards and 5 TD's so how does this shoot holes in my example? He was not injured!!!
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Postby BrutallyHuge » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:52 am

houstonoilers wrote:Thats just from 85-86...freakin monster numbers, man.....MONSTER!!!


He had a rushing TD and a passing TD too!

I had him on my fantasy team that year.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:32 pm

cooleyhigh wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Cooley - you used JSmith's rookie yr as evidence dude (cmon now) - clearly they did it for maybe one yr at most - but when JSmith has his best yr the yr that McCardell is injured, that really shoots holes in that example.


Jimmy Smith appeared in 7 games for the Dallas Cowboys in 1992 maybe this does not count as rookie year?

1999 the year you claim McCardell is injured he appeared in 16 games had 78 receptions for 891 yards and 5 TD's so how does this shoot holes in my example? He was not injured!!!


I guess JSmiths 7 games in 1992 may qualify as his rookie yr - but its also a bit of a statistical abnormality since his "3rd" yr (and 3rd team) was in 1995 w Jacksonville. 1995 was the first yr he recorded a catch - lets put it like that.

You are correct in saying 1999 that McCardell was uninjured - I was wrong about that - I had '98 and 99 mixed around for McCardell. Clearly 1999 was JSmiths career yr. But here's the rub - in order for the theory to conclude that both healthy WRs playing together actually increased BOTH players stats, then wouldnt McCardell have to have had a better season in 1999? Instead he didnt come close to setting career records that yr and in fact, it was one of his worst yrs while he was in JAX - statistically speaking.

I still dont see the case for JSmith and McCardell - I guess its kind of there - in 2000 and 2001 they both were putting up good numbers together. OK - I'll give you JSmith and McCardell - but its close.

Even still - that is 3 examples and even those 3 were only for a yr or two.
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Postby houstonoilers » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:31 pm

BrutallyHuge wrote:
houstonoilers wrote:Thats just from 85-86...freakin monster numbers, man.....MONSTER!!!


He had a rushing TD and a passing TD too!

I had him on my fantasy team that year.



LOL....old bastard!! I guess I should have said from 85-96.
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