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Eagles better with Favre?

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Do you agree with Irvin that the Eagles would be undefeated with Favre?

Yes
16
28%
No
24
41%
I don't want to agree with Irvin and TO but the Eagles would be better with Favre instead of McNabb
18
31%
 
Total votes : 58

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:45 pm

drsteuss wrote:Using records is wrong? So I'm supposed to assume that Favre has nothing to do with the Pack being 1-7? And am I supposed to throw out Super Bowls when we discuss Peyton Manning vs. Tom Brady? You really think winning and losing goes against everything involved with evaluating players? That's a load.

And Favre is smarter than McNabb? How can you possibly know that? What kind of BS is that? McNabb isn't the one who'll blindly throw into triple coverage during a playoff game because he thinks he can get away with it. Tell me again what makes Favre such an Einstein?

But please, slurp away on precious Brett all you want. I'm sure John Madden will happily join you.


Yup using records to judge the talent of a QB or any other individual player is very very wrong. It is one of the most short sighted things I can think of when discussing the talent level of players in team sports in general.

Is Favre smarter than McNabb - yup - well, at least according to Wonderlick scores. I guess its wrong to say he's smarter - how about he has a greater ability to learn - is that better?
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Postby drsteuss » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:08 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Yup using records to judge the talent of a QB or any other individual player is very very wrong. It is one of the most short sighted things I can think of when discussing the talent level of players in team sports in general.

Is Favre smarter than McNabb - yup - well, at least according to Wonderlick scores. I guess its wrong to say he's smarter - how about he has a greater ability to learn - is that better?


It's not short-sighted, CB. The way a QB plays factors into whether or not his team wins or loses. The Pack are 1-7. Is it Brett Favre's fault entirely? Of course not. But Favre has played poorly and thus helped contribute, along with his teammates, to the team's losing record. Record isn't some sort of ultimate gauge of talent, and I never meat to imply that. But divorcing a player's performance from his team's record implies that the two have nothing to do with one another, and that's a dubious assumption at best.

And it isn't short-sighted in the rest of sports, either. By talent level, Stephon Marbury is a great point guard. But there's a reason his teams land in the lottery every year.

Besides, even taking away his team's record, it's clear that the Favre of this year is just not that great a QB.

And Favre has a greater ability to learn? No, that's BS too. Going off of one test would be as short-sighted as, say, blindly relying on team records to evaluate a player.
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Postby MrHokeyPokey » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:15 pm

Favre = 1st year hall of famer

McNabb = If he doesn't win a superbowl, he won't get the respect marino got. As of right now, McNabb is not a hall of fame player.

Favre would take the eagles roster to the superbowl and win, while not losing a single game.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:30 pm

drsteuss wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Yup using records to judge the talent of a QB or any other individual player is very very wrong. It is one of the most short sighted things I can think of when discussing the talent level of players in team sports in general.

Is Favre smarter than McNabb - yup - well, at least according to Wonderlick scores. I guess its wrong to say he's smarter - how about he has a greater ability to learn - is that better?


It's not short-sighted, CB. The way a QB plays factors into whether or not his team wins or loses. The Pack are 1-7. Is it Brett Favre's fault entirely? Of course not. But Favre has played poorly and thus helped contribute, along with his teammates, to the team's losing record. Record isn't some sort of ultimate gauge of talent, and I never meat to imply that. But divorcing a player's performance from his team's record implies that the two have nothing to do with one another, and that's a dubious assumption at best.

And it isn't short-sighted in the rest of sports, either. By talent level, Stephon Marbury is a great point guard. But there's a reason his teams land in the lottery every year.


This isnt going to be resolved since its a subjective matter. However - needless to say, being a Lion's fan, the topic of QB importance on W-L has come up numerous times. Some people feel a Qb has a massive weighting on offensive production - upwards toward 90%. Personally, I am on the other end - I feel a QB has at most a 25% influence on the outcome of a game - at the absolute most.
When you say that because GB is 1-7 it is indicative on Favre's performance, I cringe. No - it isnt. That record indicates they are down to their 5th string RB, their OLine lost its veteran leadership and all its talent, the defense is injured and talentless anyway, and their coach is making questionable decisions. Favre is playing quite well actually - its the team around him that isnt.

drsteuss wrote:And Favre has a greater ability to learn? No, that's BS too. Going off of one test would be as short-sighted as, say, blindly relying on team records to evaluate a player.


See - there's another thing we disagree on. Standardized tests are imperfect - but they do help in judging something - whether its intelligence like the wonderlick, or th 40 yd dash for speed. Sure, they are imperfect, but they do at least put everyone on equal footing so something can be measured.
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Postby drsteuss » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:45 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree, CB. I never said that the Pack's record was the ultimate arbiter of Favre as a QB. And I agree with you that a million other factors also play into a team's record.

The point is that the QB's play has SOME effect. And in losses against Cincy and Detroit, Favre's performance had a great deal to do with the outcome. The idea that Favre is somehow blameless baffles me.
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