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Anything wrong with losing on purpose?

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Anything wrong with losing on purpose?

Postby gatorman1122 » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:20 am

Let's consider this scenario:

A particular owner (let's call him Gatorboy1122) has pretty much no chance of making the playoffs in his keeper league. Is it okay for that owner to lose the rest of his games on purpose to ensure a high draft pick in next year's draft?
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Postby benjapage » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:22 am

it's not really cool, no. that said, i think there are more than a couple real nfl teams that are, shall we say, succumbing to their suckage this year.

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Postby Sixxgunn » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:36 am

I could never do it, but I suppose if your team is really bad it might be tempting. Of course, I think it shouldn't be allowed in that there is no difference between tanking and someone abandoning a team. It gives unfair advantage and possibly unearned wins to certain teams and not to the ones that actually had to play a competitive team in the beginning of the year. So to answer your question: Yes, it's wrong.
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Postby MickDaddy » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:49 am

It's not within my nature to give up. I always play to win. Having said that, I don't think that it's fair to the other owners in the league to tank games. It upsets the order of things.
Just my opinion...
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Postby jayday » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:54 am

its wrong....but nfl teams tank at the end too....the last gae of the year this year, HOU/SF...everyone was talking about who wanted the first pick of the draft the most.....

also....in the nfl, teams that have locked up a playoff spot ight rest their starters....is that fair? i know, its different because they earned the right by winning those games up to that point....but it still questions the integrity of the competition level....

in the end, i dont think you can do anything to that owner.....what if you had a person who was really trying, but they sucked at picking who to start.....is the commish gonna help that team set the lineup, make waiver moves, etc? i dont think so...
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Postby catch22 » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:07 pm

jayday wrote:
in the end, i dont think you can do anything to that owner.....what if you had a person who was really trying, but they sucked at picking who to start.....is the commish gonna help that team set the lineup, make waiver moves, etc? i dont think so...


Very good point. I'm in a similar situation where we can keep 2 players for the next year with an additional $10 added to this years salary....Not looking good for this year, so ive traded good players to get a keeper for next year.
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Re: Anything wrong with losing on purpose?

Postby spodog » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:08 pm

gatorman1122 wrote:Let's consider this scenario:

A particular owner (let's call him Gatorboy1122) has pretty much no chance of making the playoffs in his keeper league. Is it okay for that owner to lose the rest of his games on purpose to ensure a high draft pick in next year's draft?


Ironically, the incentive system in the NFL actually encourages NFL teams to do this, as there is very little motivation (other than pride, LMAO) for teams that are setting at 1-9 to bang it out the last 6 weeks.

In a well constructed fantasy league, however, you can and SHOULD put in an incentive structure so that owners DO NOT TANK on purpose once they are out of it.

For instance, install a weekly Win|Loss payout system that makes it financially painful for owners to lose each week. In our long-running league, we have used a formula that each and every week, owners who WIN their game that week draw $x out of the prize pool, and owners who LOSE their games pay $2x into the prize pool. This grows the prize pool incrementally through the season and helps to keep owners with losing records incented to continue winning and actively managing their team.

The x value needs to be set based upon your leagues budget, entry fee, etc, obviously.

Don't play in a league where there is no method to keep teams with 1-8 records at this point engaged somehow.
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Postby BrutallyHuge » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:10 pm

In my league, you pay $5 for each loss. The high point winner for the week gets $30 ($5 x the 6 losers for the week).

It keeps everyone in it to the end. No one wants to bleed away money at the end....and a $30 bonus for high points is always a plus.
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Postby caneblood » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:46 pm

Making owners that lse games pay I think would take away some of the joy of playing.

You've spent time and energy drafting and now after numerous injuries and underperforming players you have a crappy squad. You're 1-8. It would be awful to make that owner pay every single week. I think you would be greatly increasing the chance of an owner just quitting the league.

In our league we use a carrot not a stick. Everyone pays in BEFORE the draft the full fee (at that point everyone's excited to pay because they think this is their year). I've had years in the past where we let players pay later but it was always a real pain to collect cause no one wants to pay when they know they have no shot.

We then have the top 4 teams make the playoffs with the next 4 teams making a consolation bowl. The winner of the consolation bowk gets a nice check (not as much as the playoff teams obviously) and their choice of pick the following year. We then award the reaminder of the draft picks in a random order. That way there is no reason to lose towards the end of the year.

I guess you can't do a random draft order in a keeper league but you have to devise your incentives right.
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Postby onnestabe » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:11 pm

I think it depends what the guy is doing to try to lose....If he is intentionally not starting players to ensure that he does not score any points, that is wrong, but if it just a matter of him not combing the waiver wire or proposing trades, then you have to let it be. It is hard to expect guys that are out of the running to put forth as much time and effort to winning as the guys that are gearing up for a playoff run.

When NFL teams "tank", they are playing their young players to see what they have for next year, and sitting some of the older guys to make sure they don't suffer career ending injuries. And because they do play the games, there is always a chance that the crappy team can win inspite of themselves. When a fantasy team wants to tank and is willing to go so far as to not start players, there is no chance that he will win a game.

Since it is a keeper league, it makes sense to some extent to start planning for next year, and that can take many forms. You can either try to lose late in the season to get a hich draft pick, or you can try to trade players that are good now for guys that will be good next year. The guy that is trying to lose now is also trying to win later.

As far as incentive to play well at the end, perhaps something like a draft lottery (a la the NBA) would work. Maybe if you have a 12 team league with 6 teams making the playoffs, set up a lottery of all the teams that miss the playoffs for the first 6 picks in the draft. That way the first draft pick isn't guaranteed for the guy who comes in last, but the bottom teams still have an advantage.
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