Too early for an '06 mock? NAH! - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Too early for an '06 mock? NAH!

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby Plindsey88 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:06 pm

daullaz wrote:The Eagles will grade all the prospects and do all the research and study they need to. When draft day comes, if the #1 WR is on the board with three or four lineman off, they'll get a WR and pick up some lineman later. If they're up and the only lineman taken is Ferguson, well then it becomes a tougher decision.


I agree with this whole-heartedly.... I think the Eagles draft board will look something like this:

1) D'Brickashaw Ferguson - OT, Virginia
2) Jonathan Scott - OT, Texas
3) Eric Winston - OT, Miami
4) Martin Nance - WR, Miami (OH)
5) Santonio Holmes - WR, Ohio St.
6) Haloti Ngata - DT, Oregon
7) Derek Hagan - WR, Arizona St.
8) Jesse Mahelona - DT, Tennessee
Image

Signature courtesy of: madaslives911
Plindsey88
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10241
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Richmond, VA

Postby Plindsey88 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:26 pm

sharptongued1 wrote:
daullaz wrote:
sharptongued1 wrote:
daullaz wrote:
maddog60 wrote:Plindsey, I really think the Eagles will go offensive line. They lost Mayberry this past year, will most likely lose Runyan to FA this year, it will be a much bigger concern than WR.

I dont like the Maroney pick, but KC has spent high picks on a RB and TE when they did not need them before, so it actually makes some sense.


I agree that the Eagles need some O-Line help as well, but if you're management and 3-4 tackles have already been drafted and no WRs have, who will you take? The guy that graded out as the 4th or 5th best lineman in the draft, or your top-rated WR? Additionally, we all know you can find quality lineman in the middle and end of the draft, and those rounds produce more starting lineman than receivers. I think. I would much rather see the Eagles pick up a Holmes/C.Jackson (or whomever grades out on top) and pick up a couple lineman in rounds 2-4.


That's not really sound logic, because it could very well be that the fourth or fifth offensive lineman carries a higher grade than the #1 wide receiver. We don't know that for sure until the draft comes around though. Apply it to fantasy sports if you will; would you rather have the #5 runningback or the #1 tight end?


No way you should apply this concept to fantasy sports. And it has as much to do with the positions as anything. Your logic is pretty flawed.

Lineman in the NFL draft and RBs in fantasy drafts couldn't be any more different. RBs in fantasy drafts are taken very high because of position scarcity. In leagus where 2 QBs start, you see that position fly off the board too. In the NFL, there are oodles of quality lineman available at the end of day one and throughout day two, and the best scouting departments unearth those diamonds.

The Eagles will grade all the prospects and do all the research and study they need to. When draft day comes, if the #1 WR is on the board with three or four lineman off, they'll get a WR and pick up some lineman later. If they're up and the only lineman taken is Ferguson, well then it becomes a tougher decision.


The only point I was trying to make was that you're assuming that the #1 wide receiver in this draft will be a better prospect than the 4th or 5th best lineman. I don't think this is the case. It's an incredibly strong year for lineman while being an incredibly weak year at wide receiver.



I think your perceived need for linemen in Philly is too high...

Their tackles are aging and will need replacing before too long, but they are 30 (Thomas) and 31 (Runyan).... That is really not at all ancient for linemen.... Willie Roaf turns 36 in the off-season, and he's still playing at a pro-bowl level.... Linemen tend to have their best years between the ages of 28 and 33... The rest of the line in Philly is relatively young... And both tackles have 2nd year guys backing them up who are servicable... I don't think either Runyan or Thomas retires in the off-season, so Philly really can afford to either wait a year to draft a stud, or draft a middle round guy who maybe needs a year on the pine to develop....

The WR situation in Philly, however, is pretty serious... Greg Lewis and Reggie Brown are both servicable, but I don't see either one being able to fill the shoes of Terrell Owens, and once you get past those two guys, there is not very much on the roster... They are currently carrying 4 WR's: Lewis, Brown, McCants, McMullen.... If either Brown or Lewis gets hurt, they could be in a whole pile of trouble... And if both were to get injured, the Eagles would have a grand total of two healthy WR's on their roster, neither of which is going to be worth anything... They have to acquire someone in the off-season who can be an immediate starter at WR.... And once you get past the first round of THIS year's draft, you're not likely to find someone who meets that criteria... Holmes, Nance, and Hagan will likely all go before the Eagles get to make their second round pick... Jason Avant will probably fall too early in the second round for the Eagles to have a shot at him, and then who's left?

I mean, you've got the option of filling an immediate need from a very small group of potential players in round one OR you have the option of filling a future need from a pool of players that you yourself admits is fairly deep this year, which route would you go if you were the Eagles in round one?
Image

Signature courtesy of: madaslives911
Plindsey88
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10241
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Richmond, VA

Postby daullaz » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:02 pm

Plindsey, that looks like a great board for the Eagles, though I don't know if Scott is good enough to be at #2. No love for Chad Jackson?
Image
Image
daullaz
Head Scribe
Head Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3107
(Past Year: 38)
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Cave

Postby Plindsey88 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:14 pm

daullaz wrote:Plindsey, that looks like a great board for the Eagles, though I don't know if Scott is good enough to be at #2. No love for Chad Jackson?



ZERO love for Chad Jackson.... LOL....

Course, I'm a 'Nole fan, so there is the slight possibility that my feelings on the matter are biased....

However, I think if you ask most "unbiased" analysts, they will tell you that Nance, Holmes, Hagan, and Avant are all better NFL prospects....


Regarding Scott:

The guy is 6'7" - 315 with excellent feet... He's not the biggest tackle in the world, but he's been a four year starter for the Horns, and I think he edges out Winston because of Winston's injury history...
Image

Signature courtesy of: madaslives911
Plindsey88
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10241
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Richmond, VA

Postby sharptongued1 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:23 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:
sharptongued1 wrote:
daullaz wrote:
sharptongued1 wrote:
daullaz wrote:
maddog60 wrote:Plindsey, I really think the Eagles will go offensive line. They lost Mayberry this past year, will most likely lose Runyan to FA this year, it will be a much bigger concern than WR.

I dont like the Maroney pick, but KC has spent high picks on a RB and TE when they did not need them before, so it actually makes some sense.


I agree that the Eagles need some O-Line help as well, but if you're management and 3-4 tackles have already been drafted and no WRs have, who will you take? The guy that graded out as the 4th or 5th best lineman in the draft, or your top-rated WR? Additionally, we all know you can find quality lineman in the middle and end of the draft, and those rounds produce more starting lineman than receivers. I think. I would much rather see the Eagles pick up a Holmes/C.Jackson (or whomever grades out on top) and pick up a couple lineman in rounds 2-4.


That's not really sound logic, because it could very well be that the fourth or fifth offensive lineman carries a higher grade than the #1 wide receiver. We don't know that for sure until the draft comes around though. Apply it to fantasy sports if you will; would you rather have the #5 runningback or the #1 tight end?


No way you should apply this concept to fantasy sports. And it has as much to do with the positions as anything. Your logic is pretty flawed.

Lineman in the NFL draft and RBs in fantasy drafts couldn't be any more different. RBs in fantasy drafts are taken very high because of position scarcity. In leagus where 2 QBs start, you see that position fly off the board too. In the NFL, there are oodles of quality lineman available at the end of day one and throughout day two, and the best scouting departments unearth those diamonds.

The Eagles will grade all the prospects and do all the research and study they need to. When draft day comes, if the #1 WR is on the board with three or four lineman off, they'll get a WR and pick up some lineman later. If they're up and the only lineman taken is Ferguson, well then it becomes a tougher decision.


The only point I was trying to make was that you're assuming that the #1 wide receiver in this draft will be a better prospect than the 4th or 5th best lineman. I don't think this is the case. It's an incredibly strong year for lineman while being an incredibly weak year at wide receiver.



I think your perceived need for linemen in Philly is too high...

Their tackles are aging and will need replacing before too long, but they are 30 (Thomas) and 31 (Runyan).... That is really not at all ancient for linemen.... Willie Roaf turns 36 in the off-season, and he's still playing at a pro-bowl level.... Linemen tend to have their best years between the ages of 28 and 33... The rest of the line in Philly is relatively young... And both tackles have 2nd year guys backing them up who are servicable... I don't think either Runyan or Thomas retires in the off-season, so Philly really can afford to either wait a year to draft a stud, or draft a middle round guy who maybe needs a year on the pine to develop....

The WR situation in Philly, however, is pretty serious... Greg Lewis and Reggie Brown are both servicable, but I don't see either one being able to fill the shoes of Terrell Owens, and once you get past those two guys, there is not very much on the roster... They are currently carrying 4 WR's: Lewis, Brown, McCants, McMullen.... If either Brown or Lewis gets hurt, they could be in a whole pile of trouble... And if both were to get injured, the Eagles would have a grand total of two healthy WR's on their roster, neither of which is going to be worth anything... They have to acquire someone in the off-season who can be an immediate starter at WR.... And once you get past the first round of THIS year's draft, you're not likely to find someone who meets that criteria... Holmes, Nance, and Hagan will likely all go before the Eagles get to make their second round pick... Jason Avant will probably fall too early in the second round for the Eagles to have a shot at him, and then who's left?

I mean, you've got the option of filling an immediate need from a very small group of potential players in round one OR you have the option of filling a future need from a pool of players that you yourself admits is fairly deep this year, which route would you go if you were the Eagles in round one?


I'll answer your last question first and work backwards if I may. I take the better player, period. I sat here watching the Packers draft a, "need" player for the past four years under Mike Sherman rather than the better player and it has completely left this team void of talent.

Now, to move on. I wasn't the one advocating the selection of an offensive lineman per se. I merely stated that you take the higher ranked player (unless obvious circumstances dictate otherwise, which I don't think this does), and it is my perception that yes, the 5th best offensive lineman in this draft is going to be better than the highest ranked wide receiver. I guess this is nothing more than coming from two different schools of thought (BPA vs. need). To me there are other answers to the wide receiver dilemma (free agency) than burning a first round pick on someone who doesn't necessarily warrant one in the first place.
"Don't let the fear of the time it will take to accomplish something stand in the way of your doing it. The time will pass anyway; we might just as well put that passing time to the best possible use."

Earl Nightingale
sharptongued1
Special Teams Staff
Special Teams Staff

User avatar

Posts: 186
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Plindsey88 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:50 pm

sharptongued1 wrote:Now, to move on. I wasn't the one advocating the selection of an offensive lineman per se. I merely stated that you take the higher ranked player (unless obvious circumstances dictate otherwise, which I don't think this does), and it is my perception that yes, the 5th best offensive lineman in this draft is going to be better than the highest ranked wide receiver. I guess this is nothing more than coming from two different schools of thought (BPA vs. need). To me there are other answers to the wide receiver dilemma (free agency) than burning a first round pick on someone who doesn't necessarily warrant one in the first place.


Actually, my friend, after reading your posts lately, I've come to the conclusion that you just like to argue... But that's beside the point...

Yes, there are other solutions to the WR dilemma in Philly (free agency).... The same could be said of their need for a lineman... Obviously if they can land a marquee player or two for either position off of free agency, that changes their draft strategy, but I was assuming that we were basing our opinions on the way the roster looks right now....

Truthfully if the Eagles were going to pick up the best available player, and ignore team need, as you are suggesting, they would likely not draft a WR OR an OT.... They would probably pick up a guy like Ahmad Brooks, Mercades Lewis, or Laurence Maroney... Because I think all of these guys will fall lower than they probably should on draft day....

With that being said... I'd like to challenge your contention that the 5th best tackle is better than the top rated WR....

Who are you calling the fifth best tackle? I think it's a given that the top 4 are:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Jonathan Scott
Eric Winston
Marcus McNeill

That leaves the following contenders for 5th best:

Joe Thomas
Daryn College
Jeremy Trueblood

Are you saying that any one of those guys is a better all around talent than all of these WR's:

Martin Nance
Santonio Holmes
Derek Hagan
Jason Avant
Chad Jackson


I beg to differ....
Image

Signature courtesy of: madaslives911
Plindsey88
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10241
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Richmond, VA

Postby sharptongued1 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:24 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:
sharptongued1 wrote:Now, to move on. I wasn't the one advocating the selection of an offensive lineman per se. I merely stated that you take the higher ranked player (unless obvious circumstances dictate otherwise, which I don't think this does), and it is my perception that yes, the 5th best offensive lineman in this draft is going to be better than the highest ranked wide receiver. I guess this is nothing more than coming from two different schools of thought (BPA vs. need). To me there are other answers to the wide receiver dilemma (free agency) than burning a first round pick on someone who doesn't necessarily warrant one in the first place.


Actually, my friend, after reading your posts lately, I've come to the conclusion that you just like to argue... But that's beside the point...

Yes, there are other solutions to the WR dilemma in Philly (free agency).... The same could be said of their need for a lineman... Obviously if they can land a marquee player or two for either position off of free agency, that changes their draft strategy, but I was assuming that we were basing our opinions on the way the roster looks right now....

Truthfully if the Eagles were going to pick up the best available player, and ignore team need, as you are suggesting, they would likely not draft a WR OR an OT.... They would probably pick up a guy like Ahmad Brooks, Mercades Lewis, or Laurence Maroney... Because I think all of these guys will fall lower than they probably should on draft day....

With that being said... I'd like to challenge your contention that the 5th best tackle is better than the top rated WR....

Who are you calling the fifth best tackle? I think it's a given that the top 4 are:

D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Jonathan Scott
Eric Winston
Marcus McNeill

That leaves the following contenders for 5th best:

Joe Thomas
Daryn College
Jeremy Trueblood

Are you saying that any one of those guys is a better all around talent than all of these WR's:

Martin Nance
Santonio Holmes
Derek Hagan
Jason Avant
Chad Jackson


I beg to differ....
I'm really not all that confrontational (although it seems that we've come down on opposing sides in more than one room). I have agreed with you in some of your statements and thought I've acknowledged those. Maybe I'll have to go back and do some editing...

I just don't think much of this year's crop of receivers, that's all. Maybe I'm just assuming too much here, but I've witnessed Philadelphia look at the landscape of the draft and if there's not a player there that fills an immediate need, they address it through other channels (Jevon Kearse, T.O. and Jon Runyan come to mind). They do an incredible job, probably better than any other team in the league of addressing potential long term problems via the draft. Secondary getting old? Spend your top three picks on defensive backs. Corey Simon going to be a problem to sign? Draft Mike Patterson. Maybe it's just me giving the Eagles too much credit. Maybe it's me giving the tackles in this draft too much credit. Or perhaps I'm not giving the possible wide receiver class enough credit. Probably a combination of all of the above. But I really don't think that much of this wide receiver class. For one, I don't think the upper tiered underclassmen are going to come out (Holmes/Jackson). And the seniors, quite frankly, I just don't think much of (for a variety of reasons none of which matter). You think more of the wide receivers this year than I do, and that's that. Have I stated that I don't think much of this wide receiver class? ;-D
"Don't let the fear of the time it will take to accomplish something stand in the way of your doing it. The time will pass anyway; we might just as well put that passing time to the best possible use."

Earl Nightingale
sharptongued1
Special Teams Staff
Special Teams Staff

User avatar

Posts: 186
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby daullaz » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:38 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:Are you saying that any one of those guys is a better all around talent than all of these WR's:

Martin Nance
Santonio Holmes
Derek Hagan
Jason Avant
Chad Jackson


I beg to differ....


Jackson?!? I heard he's TERRIBLE! :-D :-D
Image
Image
daullaz
Head Scribe
Head Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3107
(Past Year: 38)
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Cave

Postby daullaz » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:40 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:Regarding Scott:

The guy is 6'7" - 315 with excellent feet... He's not the biggest tackle in the world, but he's been a four year starter for the Horns, and I think he edges out Winston because of Winston's injury history...


I'm a big Horns fan, and I love Scott and think he's going to be a great tackle. I just don't see him as the 2nd OT off the board, but hopefully I'm wrong.
Image
Image
daullaz
Head Scribe
Head Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3107
(Past Year: 38)
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Cave

Previous

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 14:14 hours
(and 41 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact