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Postby Plindsey88 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:27 pm

sharptongued1 wrote:
Plindsey88 wrote:
VaderFin wrote:Randy Shannon should be the, or close to, hottest assistant out there. Year after year the Miami D plays great and he is a huge part of it. He is African American so unfortunately he probably isn't getting some of the opportunities he should. From a selfish perspective I hope it stays that way as I don't want him to leave. But for him, some program needs to make the move.



He's an African American so he's probably missing opportunities? Did you just say that? What decade are you living in? In the 21st century, my friend, there is no hotter commodity than a black head football coach.... Teams all over the country are tripping all over themselves to hire one... In fact, there are rules and laws in place saying that you have to give a certain number of them consideration before you actually do any hiring... If anything, Shannon has an advantage over most other coaches because of his race, not a disadvantage...


If you're going to take ridiculous stands like this, then yes, I'm going to continue to disagree/correct you. There are no, "rules or laws" dictating the hiring process of a NCAA football coach in relation to minority candidates. It does exist in the NFL, however. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=tb-minoritycoaches062905&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



OK, I told you I would let you know when you were right, and about this you're right... The rule exists in the NFL, but not in college... I stand corrected....

However, I disagree with everything in that article written by Terry Bowden, who I know personally, and who I can assure you is a total dumbass....

The idea of affirmative action when it comes to selecting head football coaches has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard....

And I stand by my statement that if given the opportunity to hire a black coach from a pool of applicants who had the exact same qualifications, expertise, accomplishment, and potential, 90% of your major college football programs would hire him over a white candidate....
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Postby VaderFin » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:30 pm

Then Plinds tell me this...why are there currently so very, very, very few African American Head Coaches? It can't be because none of them are talented enough. I don't know the number but it is 3 or 4 in all of Div 1A....you gonna tell me there are no other qualified candidates?? The number of current coaches show he is at a disadvantage...your opinion doesn't outweigh the facts here.
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Postby sharptongued1 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:37 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:
sharptongued1 wrote:
Plindsey88 wrote:
VaderFin wrote:Randy Shannon should be the, or close to, hottest assistant out there. Year after year the Miami D plays great and he is a huge part of it. He is African American so unfortunately he probably isn't getting some of the opportunities he should. From a selfish perspective I hope it stays that way as I don't want him to leave. But for him, some program needs to make the move.



He's an African American so he's probably missing opportunities? Did you just say that? What decade are you living in? In the 21st century, my friend, there is no hotter commodity than a black head football coach.... Teams all over the country are tripping all over themselves to hire one... In fact, there are rules and laws in place saying that you have to give a certain number of them consideration before you actually do any hiring... If anything, Shannon has an advantage over most other coaches because of his race, not a disadvantage...


If you're going to take ridiculous stands like this, then yes, I'm going to continue to disagree/correct you. There are no, "rules or laws" dictating the hiring process of a NCAA football coach in relation to minority candidates. It does exist in the NFL, however. http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=tb-minoritycoaches062905&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



OK, I told you I would let you know when you were right, and about this you're right... The rule exists in the NFL, but not in college... I stand corrected....

However, I disagree with everything in that article written by Terry Bowden, who I know personally, and who I can assure you is a total dumbass....

The idea of affirmative action when it comes to selecting head football coaches has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard....

And I stand by my statement that if given the opportunity to hire a black coach from a pool of applicants who had the exact same qualifications, expertise, accomplishment, and potential, 90% of your major college football programs would hire him over a white candidate....


I think that affirmative action is unconstitutional, but that's neither here nor there. I only referenced the article because it pointed out two things:

1) There are only three black head coaches in Divison 1A football
2) The, "Rooney Rule" exists in the NFL and not the NCAA.

The rest of the article was more or less jibberish
"Don't let the fear of the time it will take to accomplish something stand in the way of your doing it. The time will pass anyway; we might just as well put that passing time to the best possible use."

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Postby Plindsey88 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:50 pm

VaderFin wrote:Then Plinds tell me this...why are there currently so very, very, very few African American Head Coaches? It can't be because none of them are talented enough. I don't know the number but it is 3 or 4 in all of Div 1A....you gonna tell me there are no other qualified candidates?? The number of current coaches show he is at a disadvantage...your opinion doesn't outweigh the facts here.


Let me put it to you this way....

If Denny Green, Tony Dungy, Romeo Crennel, or Marvin Lewis retired from the NFL today, they could have any head coaching spot in the college ranks currently available... That, in and of itself, debunks your theory that the NCAA has so few black coaches because of a racial bias...

And, for the record, a few years back, there were 7 or 8 head coaches in Div 1-A that were black... The reason there are only three right now, is cause the other ones got fired for not getting it done... I have no sympathy for any coach, black or white, who loses his job cause he can't win games... That's what they're payed for...

The question you have to ask yourself is this:

Is Miami's defense dominant because of suberb coaching or is Miami's defense dominant because of all the places in the country to recruit from, South Florida has the most talented pool of recruits?
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Postby VaderFin » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:56 pm

Dude, there are 118 D1A teams. Even if there were 20 African American Head Coaches the disparrity would be HUGE. Yes, coaches get fired all the time but the OPPORTUNITIES are not there. 3 out of 118? 3 out of 118 says it ALL.
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Postby VaderFin » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:58 pm

And yes, coaching makes a difference. Talent alone can't win you games. We both should know that.
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Postby Plindsey88 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:03 pm

VaderFin wrote:Dude, there are 118 D1A teams. Even if there were 20 African American Head Coaches the disparrity would be HUGE. Yes, coaches get fired all the time but the OPPORTUNITIES are not there. 3 out of 118? 3 out of 118 says it ALL.


Of those 118, how many have hired a coach in the past 5 years?

I'd be interested to know...

I'd also like to know, of the applicants who applied for the coaching vacancies, how the resumes of the black coaches compared to the resumes of the people who eventually got hired....

You can't just say, well there are 118 positions, and only 3 of them are filled by black people, so therefore the NCAA is racist... That's WAY too simplistic.... And I don't buy it.... In today's social climate, there is a huge advantage to any school who hires a black head coach... And I refuse to believe that they do not consider hiring any because of some ridiculous racial nonsense...
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Postby Plindsey88 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:07 pm

VaderFin wrote:And yes, coaching makes a difference. Talent alone can't win you games. We both should know that.


Obviously coaching makes a difference, but I submit to you that there are FAR better defensive coaches out there than Shannon, who do not have the same success he does, because their recruits are not 99.5% 1st team All-Americans....
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Postby HskrPwr13 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:11 pm

VaderFin wrote:Then Plinds tell me this...why are there currently so very, very, very few African American Head Coaches? It can't be because none of them are talented enough. I don't know the number but it is 3 or 4 in all of Div 1A....you gonna tell me there are no other qualified candidates?? The number of current coaches show he is at a disadvantage...your opinion doesn't outweigh the facts here.


Hope you dont mind, Vaderfin, but I'd like a crack at this one. The media and the BCA, much like with other issues, want this to be made an issue of racism when its actually just an issue of race. (For those that will jump all over this, yes, there's a difference.) Desegregation is still fairly new in terms of systems that have been in place for a long time. We are still a very segregated society in regards to many Amercians' lives. Most blacks have many black contacts compared to most whites. Most whites have many white contacts versus black contacts. It isnt this way due to racism (maybe thats how it got started), but due to who you group up with or where, friends of family members, etc. Times are changing so that our society becomse more desegrated, but it is a process, wont happen overnight or because Jesse Jackson wants it to. So to come back to the original question a presumably white/rich AD is going to have more white contacts or know more white people that know the white coaches, etc., etc. If someone is trying to find racism, they'll claim this is too broad of a stroke to paint this picture with. But its realitly, like it or not. I will agree with Pindsley, that if the AD is presented two candidates that he/she has no ties to and all else is equal, the black candidate may be given the nod to bolster the schools PR. Again, whether you like it or not.
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Postby VaderFin » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:11 pm

Plindsey88 wrote:
VaderFin wrote:And yes, coaching makes a difference. Talent alone can't win you games. We both should know that.


Obviously coaching makes a difference, but I submit to you that there are FAR better defensive coaches out there than Shannon, who do not have the same success he does, because their recruits are not 99.5% 1st team All-Americans....


And I would say you are wrong.
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