Peyton Manning--Most overrated quarterback in history - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Peyton Manning--Most overrated quarterback in history

Moderator: Football Moderators

Peyton Manning--Most overrated quarterback in history

Postby Shader » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:15 am

While we're bashing superstars because they have talent around them, I thought I'd bring up a topic near and dear to my heart. How Peyton Manning is the most overrated QB in history

Peyton has had a great o-line, elite talent at wr, and a great rb for his entire NFL career.

He consistently has put up big-time numbers due to the fact that his defense stunk for years and he was forced to pass alot. He usually gets the majority of his td's in games against subpar competition.

He is as immobile as they come.

He has choked in every post-season he ever played in (choked in big games in college too)

He is unbelievably egotistical and is not always the most popular teammate.

He puts up big numbers and stats in a dome, something other qb's don't have to contend with.

Other qb's in the league don't get:

A hall-of-fame receiver for your entire career
A top 5 running back
Pristine conditions 8 times a year
A team that consistently has passed over defensive players in favor of getting you as many weapons as humanely possible
An offensive line that rarely allows the QB to even be pressured

If Manning wins the super bowl this year, I'll have to give him credit. But if you put him on any other NFL team, he'd be just another good NFL qb.
Shader
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 367
Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tennessee

Postby FatFoot » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:01 am

How many times is this thread started?

How Peyton Manning is the most overrated QB in history


He's one of the best in the game currently, if not THE best in the game, currently. Because of that, and because of his fantasy numbers last year and of late, not only is he worthy of a lot of praise, but YES he is going to be overrated. He'd be screwed if he were on the Texans. But that doesn't change what he is... one of, if not the best currently playing.

Peyton has had a great o-line, elite talent at wr, and a great rb for his entire NFL career.


These things are symbiotic in nature. The Bears O-line is the only reason that Kyle Orton looks better than Krentzel, or will keep the job over Grossman, this year. Having a great QB makes a decent O-line more effective. Having a passing game makes a RB more effective. BEING a great QB will create elite WRs. It's not that these guys won't develop on their own, but a lot of talented WRs never get near their potential, because of who is throwing them the ball.

He consistently has put up big-time numbers due to the fact that his defense stunk for years and he was forced to pass alot.


This is a problem? How does this even TOUCH on being a criticism? Isn't that EXACTLY what you want from a QB, if your defense is weak?

He usually gets the majority of his td's in games against subpar competition.


You don't make your own schedule. Every crap team that Peyton has scored on has had to play 15 other games each season as well. It stands to reason that every QB should be as great as Peyton, by that rationale.

He is as immobile as they come.


So are you going to go ahead and trash all of history's great pocket passers? Is Peyton being somehow less effective, because of this perceived immobility issue? I don't think you can make that argument.

He has choked in every post-season he ever played in (choked in big games in college too)


OR he played better teams, or was outplayed.

He is unbelievably egotistical and is not always the most popular teammate.


I'll assume this is by some personal experience. Because otherwise, it just doesn't mean anything to me. How many star athletes DON'T consider themselves the greatest at what they do?

He puts up big numbers and stats in a dome, something other qb's don't have to contend with.


Why wasn't Culpepper the best QB this year? There are what, 5 other domes as well. Why isn't this a knock on those players? And what about teams that play at home in domes, and play more road games against other NFC dome teams (most of the domes are NFC)... it's a bogus complaint, really.

If Manning wins the super bowl this year, I'll have to give him credit. But if you put him on any other NFL team, he'd be just another good NFL qb.


I think, rather, that if you put him on a bad NFL team, he'll look bad. If you put him anywhere halfway decent, he's going to be a stud, no matter how you cut it. He's as good as most give him credit for.
FatFoot
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 3259
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: In the Belly of the Beast

Postby bonusman.com » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:15 am

good post.

Thanks
bonusman.com
Cheerleader
Cheerleader


Posts: 10
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Postby josebach » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:21 am

He's overrated the same way Dan Marino is overrated. Oh, wait. He's not overrated at all.

-He completely runs the offense. How many QB's do this? There is no possible way for anyone to make light of this.
-2 NFL MVPs
-5 Pro Bowls
-NFL Record single season touchdown record
-NFL Record single season QB Rating
-Only NFL QB in history to pass for 4,000 yards 6 years in a row
-Only NFL QB in history to pass for at least 3,000 yards in the first seven seasons of his carreer
-Only NFL QB in histroy to pass for at least 25 touchdowns in the first seven seasons of his carreer
-Only NFL QB in history to throw for 12,000+ yards in his first three seasons
-Only NFL QB in history to record 4 perfect games
-Has started 122 consecutive games, the most by any NFL quarterback ever to start a career.
-Has led the Colts to 10 or more wins in 6 out of 8 seasons
-Suprassed 15,000 passing yards in his 59th career game and 100 touchdowns in his 56th game, the second and third fastest in NFL history
-He's one of the biggest philanthropists in the NFL


Granted, some of these accomplishments he wouldn't have if he wasn't surrounded by a great cast, but there have been dozens of quarterbacks surrounded by great casts that haven't even come close to matching his accomplishments.

Peyton Manning overrated? If your accumulated football knowledge leads you to that conclusion, it's pretty safe to say I'll be avoiding any posts by you in the future.
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby josebach » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:43 am

Oh, and the argument about Peyton never having won a Super Bowl... didn't every Super Bowl winning QB go through a period in their career where they never won a Super Bowl? My point is, you can't judge Peyton on this until his career is over. Hell, that's what they said about Elway for years and we all know how that turned out.
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:47 am

FatFoot wrote:
Peyton has had a great o-line, elite talent at wr, and a great rb for his entire NFL career.


These things are symbiotic in nature. The Bears O-line is the only reason that Kyle Orton looks better than Krentzel, or will keep the job over Grossman, this year. Having a great QB makes a decent O-line more effective. Having a passing game makes a RB more effective. BEING a great QB will create elite WRs. It's not that these guys won't develop on their own, but a lot of talented WRs never get near their potential, because of who is throwing them the ball.


It is also often thought of as just the opposite - that a good RB will make the passing game more effective and that good WRs make the QB look better than he may be.

Look - an argument CAN be made that Manning is overrated simply because of the talent thats around him. I disagree since one can also see all the small things he does in reading defenses and finding the hot route when defenses blitz - thats all skill IMO.
Cornbread Maxwell
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 5924
Joined: 7 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby josebach » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:58 am

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Look - an argument CAN be made that Manning is overrated simply because of the talent thats around him. I disagree since one can also see all the small things he does in reading defenses and finding the hot route when defenses blitz - thats all skill IMO.


You CAN make an argument that anybody is overrated. That's not the point. Of all the athletes out there, to choose Peyton Manning at this point in his career is an incredible stretch. Not only that, but to say he's "the most overrated QB in history" is simply beyond stupid. The guy who started this thread is either trolling or knows absolutely nothing about how difficult the QB position is to play in the NFL. By his logic, Joe Montana, John Elway, Steve Young and Dan Marino are all overrated also because they had great surrounding casts. Give me a break. Football is a team sport. Considering how crummy Indy's defense has been the better part of his career, I think Manning has done a phenomenal job.
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby Shader » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:08 am

Don't look at his stats, guys, that is not the measure of talent.
Shader
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 367
Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tennessee

Postby Nilmerf » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:19 am

Shader wrote:Don't look at his stats, guys, that is not the measure of talent.

Then what is? Combine results? By that logic Fabian Washington is the best corner in the NFL, and Michael Bennett is the best running back. Stats aren't the only thing to measure talent, but when you have great talent.. the stats usually follow. Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky dominated games, but would you diminish their talent just because they put up huge stats?

Your argument is terrible. I'm not really a Peyton fan, but I can't name a better QB in the NFL right now. Can you?
Nilmerf
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 2059
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: BC

Postby gatorman1122 » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:30 am

If Manning wins the super bowl this year, I'll have to give him credit. But if you put him on any other NFL team, he'd be just another good NFL qb.

He'd be screwed if he were on the Texans.

If Manning was on the Texans, the Texans wouldn't be 1-9, and Andre Johnson would be a top 5 WR (where he should be).

Don't look at his stats, guys, that is not the measure of talent.

Then how do you measure talent?

By the team's record? The colts are 10-0.

By the number of Superbowl rings a person has? Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring. Does that make him better than the likes of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, etc.?
gatorman1122
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1466
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Next

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 17:34 hours
(and 35 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact