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Top 5/Bottom 5 Head Coaches of '05

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Postby michaelavelli » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:46 pm

I'm not a blind must-be-Patriots fan. I recognize weaknesses and strenghts, I don't have to be ra-ra. But if you say that their improved defense over the past 5 weeks is better because "they're winning" then you a) aren't making a lot of sense because defense is how you win and b) haven't been watching the games.

Also, the notion that a lack of a running game leads to a successful passing attack is also ridiculous, They had a 1600 yard rusher last year and Brady had a great season. If anything, relying more on your passing game and being one dimensional tends to damage the effectiveness of your passing attack. Seems pretty simple.
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Postby RocketsDWM » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:18 am

Plindsey88 wrote:I'll tell you why Belichick isn't anywhere near the top of my list...

Immediately prior to becoming the head coach of the Patriots he was the secondary coach for the Jets and the Patriots... (Before that he had a HORRIBLE run as head coach of the Cleveland Browns, but that is not central to my point)... Throughout the 80's he was employed by the Giants as one type of defensive coach or another, culminating in his position as defensive coordinator...

His specialty is defense. It's what he is known for. He is supposed to be THE GURU when it comes to defense... And his most recent appointments prior to his head coaching job in New England were jobs coaching secondaries...

So far, in 2005, New England ranks 28th in the league in terms of passing yards allowed by their secondary.

So far, in 2005, New England ranks 28th in the league in terms of passing TD's allowed by their secondary.

So far, in 2005, New England ranks 27th in the league in terms of interceptions made by their secondary.

Now, we are supposed to be talking about Belichick's specialty, here...

If you ask me, the loss of his coordinators and injury to Rodney Harrison have exposed him for what he was in Cleveland and what he is now - a second rate head coach who's been lucky enough to be surrounded by great talent up to this point....



Injured:
Bruschi - Heart and soul of that defense that makes everything go. Without him, Belichick had to rely on guys such as Chad Brown and Monty Beisel who were just getting used to the system.

Seymour

Harrison


You take away a coaches three best defensive weapons and see how that works out for them. Take away Bob Sanders, Freeney and Mathis say from the Colts and see how that defense works. And yet he has still managed to lead this team to the division crown despite the injuries (minus the coordinators as well).


This doesnt pertain to this year but look at the talent he was surrounded by in 2001 - his starting running back was Antowain Smith and his starting QB was a rookie and they still won the SB. Second rate coach? Ha.
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Postby flotsamnjetsam » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:28 am

michaelavelli wrote:I'm not a blind must-be-Patriots fan. I recognize weaknesses and strenghts, I don't have to be ra-ra. But if you say that their improved defense over the past 5 weeks is better because "they're winning" then you a) aren't making a lot of sense because defense is how you win and b) haven't been watching the games.

Also, the notion that a lack of a running game leads to a successful passing attack is also ridiculous, They had a 1600 yard rusher last year and Brady had a great season. If anything, relying more on your passing game and being one dimensional tends to damage the effectiveness of your passing attack. Seems pretty simple.


It's obviously useless to try and have a discussion/debate with you by stating my opinions. You are right about everything and everyone elses opinions are wrong. Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all-time and the Lombardi Trophy should be renamed the Belichick Trophy. That make you feel better? Have a happy new year.
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Postby Bennett4prez » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:48 am

So, I say Lovie Smith is the best coach hands down... *cough*tangent king and queen*cough*

Kidding, this is an interesting debate! ;-D
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Postby michaelavelli » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:21 am

flotsamnjetsam wrote:
michaelavelli wrote:I'm not a blind must-be-Patriots fan. I recognize weaknesses and strenghts, I don't have to be ra-ra. But if you say that their improved defense over the past 5 weeks is better because "they're winning" then you a) aren't making a lot of sense because defense is how you win and b) haven't been watching the games.

Also, the notion that a lack of a running game leads to a successful passing attack is also ridiculous, They had a 1600 yard rusher last year and Brady had a great season. If anything, relying more on your passing game and being one dimensional tends to damage the effectiveness of your passing attack. Seems pretty simple.


It's obviously useless to try and have a discussion/debate with you by stating my opinions. You are right about everything and everyone elses opinions are wrong. Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all-time and the Lombardi Trophy should be renamed the Belichick Trophy. That make you feel better? Have a happy new year.


When you make a statement and it isn't true, and it is pointed out as such, it's pretty easy to then call it an "opinion".

If it's your "opinion" that having no running game automatically tanslates into a 4,000 yard passer, well, you're wrong.

I never said that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time or that he should have his name on the Lombardi. You're doing a poor job of trying to discredit me by making me look like I'm an over-the-top Pats fan. I'm not.

My point is simply I think with the job Belihick has done this year with all the injuries & adversity, he deserves to be in the top 5 of Coach of the Year (not number 1, by the way).

Also, my point is that a great passing offense is just that: a great passing offense. It is not simply the product of not having a running game. That just doesn't make sense.

And finally, the Pats defense has drastically improved over the past 5 weeks. I mostly attribute this to an increase of cohesion in a secondary that wasn't even supposed to be starting this year, and certainly not without their veteran safety. Also, if you watch the games (which doesn't sound likely), there's been a clear difference in the play-calling over the past 5 weeks as far as a drastic increase in the aggression of the play-calling. They've been calling much more blitzing than previously (most likely because they didn't trust the patchwork secondary as much).

Also, the front 7 is healthy right now and is playing as good as any front 7 in the entire NFL.

If you say something, stick by it and be able to back it up, don't just say "oh it's my opinion" when it's shown to be unreasonable.
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Postby Marlins#1 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:17 am

Saben COTY. Dolphins 9-7 won 6 st8 games, if they didnt lose a couple close games, they would be divison champs right now B-)
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Postby michaelavelli » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:38 am

Marlins#1 wrote:Saben COTY. Dolphins 9-7 won 6 st8 games, if they didnt lose a couple close games, they would be divison champs right now B-)


Yeah, I'm sure if they had a shot at divisoin champs, the Pats would have started Matt Cassel and Bam Childress today.

How about the 'Phins first string defense beating out our 3rd stringers 28-26?

Dolphins have had a great season, very surprising, don't get me wrong, but Division Championship was out of reach this season, no matter what.
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Postby finman54 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:48 am

Patriots 10-6
Dolphins 9-7

Way out of reach huh?

I hope you're prepared for next season, not saying the Dolphins will win it or anything, but injuries and age are going to take their toll a lot more than this year.

And no I'm not about to argue with you about this.
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Postby Marlins#1 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:26 pm

michaelavelli wrote:
Marlins#1 wrote:Saben COTY. Dolphins 9-7 won 6 st8 games, if they didnt lose a couple close games, they would be divison champs right now B-)


Yeah, I'm sure if they had a shot at divisoin champs, the Pats would have started Matt Cassel and Bam Childress today.

How about the 'Phins first string defense beating out our 3rd stringers 28-26?

Dolphins have had a great season, very surprising, don't get me wrong, but Division Championship was out of reach this season, no matter what.


You gota be joking, NE got stomped by SD, we stomped SD, ;-7 If it wasnt a close lost to the pats, that final game would be for the divison.
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Postby BostonBlades » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:06 pm

WHOA.
That's all I can say.

I love BB. It is obvious from my signature and such that I am a Patriots fan. So there is of course a little bit of homer in me. I will not return this to a Patriots man-love thread. The Pats games early in the year (SD, Indy) that we lost, we were not putting the same team on the field. Billy gets top consideration IMO, but he's not just thrown in because of the last 4 seasons. If he's out of the top 5, its more of other coach's outstanding jobs than it is Belichick not doing a good job.

With that said, I'd like to get the thread back on track.
MY TOP 5:
1- Lovie: Can't give enough love (pun partially intended) to Lovie. No one had 'Da Bears on their radar this season. They have ridden that outstanding defense to the number 2 seed in the NFC. Lovie goes here, and I don't see how it can be that heavily argued against.
2 - Tony Dungy: As stated before, 13 straight is 13 straight. Now that the Colts have a respectable defense, they have to be the team to beat this year. Dungy has gotten his guys and shown results.
3 - Marvin Lewis: I think many people felt the Bengals would be good soon, but they arrived perhaps a little earlier than expected. They seem to be the Colts of old - a high-powered offense with a mediocre at best defense. They have certainly slipped a bit in these last couple weeks of the season, but Lewis deserves to be up here.
4 - Mike Holmgren: The number 1 team in the NFC can't be overlooked. The Seahawks have finally gotten to the point where they are legitamite contenders, and I think Holmgren gets most of that credit for putting it together.
5 - I'll put Belichick here. We know the secondary problems, the loss of both coordinaters. I love him, don't want to throw too much homer in here. I really don't think he can be top 3 because the Pats did only win 10 games, but he does deserve to be here I think.
HONORABLE MENTIONS: John Gruden, Mike Shannahan, Joe Gibbs

BOTTOM 5:
32 - Dom Capers: 2-14. It is what it is. The Texans are bad, bad, bad. I think he has to be here.
31 - Martz/Vitt: The Rams are BAAAADDD. They are responsible for half of the 49ers wins. How can you lose to San Fran twice and NOT be on this list? Another deserved firing.
30 - Mooch/Jauron: We always hear the potential of this team, particularly the offense. It hasn't happened. Yes, Millen, Millen. He's part of the problem (or perhaps THE problem), but this team just never seemed to get it.
29 - Norv Turner: Turner seems to me to be the guy that is best suited as a coordinater and thats it. He was great for those Dallas teams of the 90's, did well in Miami, but I don't really like him at all as a HC. The Raiders weren't exactly expected to be Super Bowl contenders, but they certainly seemed better than 4-12.
28 - Mike Mularkey: He just seemed to lose this team at the end of the year. I remember when the Pats killed them up in Buffalo, that team just was not playing hard. They aren't the most talented, but they were not there and I have to believe that it starts at the Head Coach.
PASSES GIVEN TO: Herm Edwards, Jim Haslett, Jeff Fisher (clearly).
NOTE: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Please, don't take it too seriously.

That took entirely too long. I'm going to go take a shower or do something productive.
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