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Postby RocketsDWM » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:06 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RocketsDWM wrote:As long as Millen is in Detroit, that team is going nowhere.


why is that?


I think you know where I stand concerning the Millen situation. The same opinions are going to be brought up on both sides.
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Postby mysticphysh » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:16 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RocketsDWM wrote:As long as Millen is in Detroit, that team is going nowhere.


why is that?


mismanagement, bad drafts, wrong coaching moves, etc etc
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Postby Santacruzer » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:21 pm

mysticphysh wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RocketsDWM wrote:As long as Millen is in Detroit, that team is going nowhere.


why is that?


mismanagement, bad drafts, wrong coaching moves, etc etc

I'll give you the "mismanagement", and "wrong coaching moves", but I don't think you can say that Millen had bad drafts.

Before you go and spout off about 3 top 10 WRs in consecutive years, think about the drafts, during the drafts.

Millen was being heralded and given kudos from everyone around the league, and other "draft experts" during each of those drafts. It is not his fault that they didn't pan out, in a poor coaching scheme. Even drafting "big Mike" to make history as the only team to spend 3 consecutive 1st round picks on WRs, many people had Mike as a top level pick, ans even slated as the best overall in the draft (and maybe Millen had a little insight into the "pot smoking", and "lazy attitude" Rogers has).
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Postby moochman » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:27 pm

Santacruzer wrote:
mysticphysh wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
RocketsDWM wrote:As long as Millen is in Detroit, that team is going nowhere.


why is that?


mismanagement, bad drafts, wrong coaching moves, etc etc

I'll give you the "mismanagement", and "wrong coaching moves", but I don't think you can say that Millen had bad drafts.

Before you go and spout off about 3 top 10 WRs in consecutive years, think about the drafts, during the drafts.

Millen was being heralded and given kudos from everyone around the league, and other "draft experts" during each of those drafts. It is not his fault that they didn't pan out, in a poor coaching scheme. Even drafting "big Mike" to make history as the only team to spend 3 consecutive 1st round picks on WRs, many people had Mike as a top level pick, ans even slated as the best overall in the draft (and maybe Millen had a little insight into the "pot smoking", and "lazy attitude" Rogers has).


As much as I tire of making this arguement, I'll make it once again. To date Millen's drafts can be viewed as nothing short of failures. His first pick(#3 overall) is a QB who hasn't developed as much as his draft position would dictate. The next year's big pick @ #2 overall was a local kid with a rep for dropping passing, poor practice habits, positive drug tests and a crapload of talent. All but the latter have shown up on the NFL level. Roy is a star type player, but again not without some warning signs that have proven true thus far. He is a poor practice player, primadonna, and doesn't sell out to make catches. Alligator legs, if you would, as he slows down or cuts off routes that might lead to taking a big hit. Still a very good pick. but for this team his nature fits in too easily to the flaws of so many of the players Millen has brought in. And the latest pick. Big Mike Williams. The WR in a TE body who is a poor practice player and is rumored to like doughnuts a lot more than working out........hmmmmm doughnuts.

Too many of the rest of the picks he has made have each underachieved with some disturbingly familiar themes: They had injuries in college and have carried that over to their pro careers. So since Millen has had an inordinate number of high draft picks and the team is still struggling to become anywhere close to as good as it was when he took over I can only say that his drafting/player procurment has been to date abysmal.

Like his lastest installment of coach M says: The NFL is a show me league. And he aint' showed much.
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Postby RocketsDWM » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:55 pm

What really baffles me is that Millen received an extension. Has he not led this team to the worst record in the league for the past five years or so? And the owners give him an extension? What has his team proven ON THE FIELD? They have made no improvenments in terms of wins even in a relatively weak division - at least contend for a playoff spot every other year. I guess every bad manager should get an extension just to give him a bit more time - where does this end? Does he get 10 yrs to turn around a franchise? If Millen was in New York, I highly doubt he would still be the GM anymore.
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Postby moochman » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:45 pm

The Fords like Millen, it's as simple as that. I fear there may be more to it, such as Millen selling out his coaches to excuse his own performance. He always is saying how much talent the team has, but what would you expect him to say? I think the Fords must believe him.
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Postby RocketsDWM » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:53 pm

moochman wrote:The Fords like Millen, it's as simple as that. I fear there may be more to it, such as Millen selling out his coaches to excuse his own performance. He always is saying how much talent the team has, but what would you expect him to say? I think the Fords must believe him.


As well, its never his fault, always the coach. So after three years he gets a new one then blames him three years down the road and gets him fired.
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Postby Santacruzer » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:26 am

I am not outright defending Millen (he has made his share of mistakes, and someone other than a coach should get some blame), but I still don't believe that he should get much heat over his drafts.

Hindsight is 20/20. Shortly after each draft almost everyone believed he walked away each time with one of the best, if not the best draft out of all of the teams.

Don't give me "this guy, and that guy have not panned out" excuses. No one knew that any of those guys would be busts at the time. Just ask San Diego about giving up 2 first round picks (and even a second rounder I believe) just to move up one spot in the 1998 draft so they could get Ryan Leaf! At least Millen has not overpaid with draft picks for these busts.
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Postby moochman » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:37 am

Santacruzer wrote:I am not outright defending Millen (he has made his share of mistakes, and someone other than a coach should get some blame), but I still don't believe that he should get much heat over his drafts.

Hindsight is 20/20. Shortly after each draft almost everyone believed he walked away each time with one of the best, if not the best draft out of all of the teams.

Don't give me "this guy, and that guy have not panned out" excuses. No one knew that any of those guys would be busts at the time. Just ask San Diego about giving up 2 first round picks (and even a second rounder I believe) just to move up one spot in the 1998 draft so they could get Ryan Leaf! At least Millen has not overpaid with draft picks for these busts.


Hindsight is also history. Over time we can see who drafted well and who hasn't. To date Millen has drafted poorly. And I would say that Millen hasn't paid personally for his drafting, but his team and it's fans have been asked to pay a handsome price: It's called their win/loss record.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:11 am

Why do you guys keep repeating the record? You know the response: he took over a team that was in a much worse situation than any expansion team, so what did you expect? It was far from a normal rebuilding period - normally those have some young players with a little talent to build aound and some cap space to fill some holes - the Lions and Millen had neither.

Also - as for the draft picks - we are going to have to agree to disagree moochman. I like KJones, Roy Williams, Boss Bailey, Teddy Lehman, Kelly Butler, BMW, Shaun Cody, Terrence Holt, Stan Wilson, James Davis, Cory Redding, Keith Smith, and DanO. I like the majority of Millen's draft picks. I think these guys have some good upside and since they have only been in the league 3 years or less I think its really quite premature to judge them - especially considering that they have been raised under Mooch who did such an abysmal job bringing in leadership and work ethic. Lets see what they can do with someone who excells at bringing the best out of his players and is known for his motivational tactics, teaching and leadership - qualities that havent been in DET since these players arrived.

I also think Millen has done a good job managing the salary cap, and brining in some good FAs.

Of course there have been FA and Draft busts, but its not like everything he does turns to poop like it seems many think either.
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