eaglesrule wrote:i'd put it this way. If you could do a one-way trade to denver. We get nothing, you get owens, I'd still do it. Keep him out of the conference.
If we trade him does his contract still have cap ramifications? If it would free up more room than cutting him, that alone makes a trade worthy.
D3C4K wrote:I just can't see TO and Plummer culminating in anything but disaster, if for no other reason than Denver's diminishing faith in their qb. I don't think TO is poison to a team, as many others seem to think. I do, however, think that if there was ever a qb that would not work with TO, it'd be Plummer. Even R. Smith stated in interviews earlier in the year that in the past, they would hold their breath when Plummer would get jumpy in the pocket, hoping that he'd throw the ball away rather than try to force it somewhere. If composed veterans are worried about Plummer at times, I can't imagine TO lasting in that environment. Frankly, I'm not even sure the addition of a big play threat would help Denver all that much, as I really don't like the idea of placing the ball in Plummer's hands more often (which they would surely have to do to get TO his touches to keep him happy), and away from the ground game that's worked so well for them every year. I think the reason they haven't gone all the way has far more to do with the qb, rather than their talent pool at wr. Just my opinion.
So...I think just about all those points you made are just not even close. Denver does not have diminshing faith in their QB after he led them to a 13-3 regular season record. Plummer was #7 in the NFL in passer rating this year and it was because they were asking him to just be more patient, it's not that they didn't have faith in him. I see that you said Rod Smith stated that he used to hope that Plummer would throw the ball away, but this year Plummer was the most accurate passer in the NFL when outside the pocket. I don't think they are hoping for that anymore.
How would the addition of a big play threat not help Denver? It is what is severely lacking in their receiving corps. It wouldn't be taking away from the running game necessarily, but it definitely would open it up more with a threat like TO on the outside that must be accounted for. You are judging Plummer on his 1 game in the AFC championship and it is not fair to discount all the positive progress he made this season. I don't think TO would have wanted to play with Plummer before this season happened, but I think Plummer has proven himself solid enough that a guy like TO would really improve things for him.
I think it's funny that last year when Collins got Moss in Oakland, everyone thought big things for Collins. I kept saying that 1 WR doesn't make a QB good that hasn't really ever been that great. But now with the possibility of TO going to Denver, there's not exactly the same kind of hype even though I think Plummer is a suprerior QB to Collins. I don't group Plummer in that same category as Collins, this is Plummer's first job where he is actually surrounded with some talent, and they went 13-3 this year without a guy like TO. I think that with him they will be tough to beat.
I'm not judging him on the one AFC game, although that game was huge and what many people were using as a measuring stick for him throughout the season. Actually, it seemed as though people were waiting for him to fall apart during a big game, and when he had a rough time they jumped down his throat. After Denver lost to Pittsburgh, they actually had a few commentators on ESPNews (can't remember the names now) who had the discussion about certain people in Denver losing confidence in Plummer, which is why I brought that up. It's not that I'm trying to take away a season's worth of work as much as I'm saying that 13-3 isn't as important when you lose in the playoffs. You can win in the regular season with a great all-around team, but typically, come playoff time (especially in the AFC) you need a qb that can take over and lead his team to victory. I can see Plummer doing that against some teams, just not playoff-caliber teams playing at their best in crunch time. I'm not saying Plummer is bad by any means, I'm just wondering if he can lead his team to a Super Bowl. I actually think he was just as good in 2003 as he is now, only this year he's been healthy all year and his team stepped up and won more games. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how he improves in his 10th season, especially if he gets TO.
No way TO goes to San Diego. SD has a young and somewhat established, but talented WR corps in Parker, Caldwell, and Vincent Jackson...they'll probably play with Jackson a bit this year to see what they have before they roll the dice on a guy like TO. Not to mention, I could see Marty pissing his pants the first time TO blows up. Marty can't handle him.
LOL. I think you may be right there, unfortunately. I'd like to see how Caldwell looks if he can stay healthy, and I'd like to see more from Jackson. Maybe they could get their hands on Reggie Wayne, but that's just wishful thinking for now...
QB - C. Newton WR - L. Fitzgerald WR - S. Smith (Car) RB - M. Turner RB - C. Johnson TE - A. Gates W/R/T - B. Wells K - S. Janikowski DEF - NYJ
BN - M. Ryan BN - J. Battle BN - P. Thomas BN - J. Ringer BN - V. Cruz BN - B. Pettigrew BN - SF D
Nilmerf wrote:I would draft Plummer as a top 3 QB if this is true.
Kerry Collins.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yeah, good point considering Collins was still a top 10 QB despite the fact that Moss was basically a non-factor for the majority of the season. Collins missed a start and finished at 10. He was 2.5 pts away from being #8 behind 2 QB's that started all 16 games. Had Moss stayed healthy all season long, Collins would have lived up to his top 5 hype. All the Collins nay-sayers are trying to act like they were right all along, but they weren't. Collins was easily a top 5 QB through the first 10 games. Injuries don't prove bust predictions.
I am not much into the financial-side of football, but the Broncos need to re-sign Nalen and Lepsis. Not sure how that will affect any efforts to acquire TO via a trade.
About the only things I would see Denver trading would be draft picks (we have a lot of them), or D-line (Pryce, or an ex-Brown). I would be pretty suprised to see them trade away anyone else.
Timbathia wrote:I am not much into the financial-side of football, but the Broncos need to re-sign Nalen and Lepsis. Not sure how that will affect any efforts to acquire TO via a trade.
About the only things I would see Denver trading would be draft picks (we have a lot of them), or D-line (Pryce, or an ex-Brown). I would be pretty suprised to see them trade away anyone else.
Speaking of this, I thought I recently read that the Broncos will likely have salary cap issues next year (something about them being built to win this year)...can they afford to sign TO?
merc wrote: And, I think TO misses playing so much that if he ends up on Denver, he will just let his playing do all his talking. If I were him, I wouldn't give any interviews or even talk to anyone not on the team.
I gotta agree with that. TO is a very competitive guy and wants to play. I think he'll suck it up and just play and keep his mouth shut if he ends in Denver, if for nothing else, to stay employed.
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by eaglesrule » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:13 pm 
