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T.O. visits Denver

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Postby fantasizing » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:46 pm

Nfl Fan wrote:
Nilmerf wrote:I would draft Plummer as a top 3 QB if this is true.


Kerry Collins.


#1. Moss was injured all this season.
#2. TO is better than Moss. In fact he's the best WR in the NFL when he's actually playing. Right now, S. Smith is the best WR in the NFL (he's a smaller version of TO....great YAC reciever).

The Eagles passed 70% of the time and TO was their only legitimate receiving threat and look at the numbers TO put up when he played in Philly, something like 20 touchdowns in 21 games. Clearly teams, knowing the Eagles were going to pass most of time, and pass to TO, still couldnt' stop him.

You can't convince me that Plummer is any less accurate than McNabb, or worse as a scrambler, or has a weaker arm than McNabb.

Denver's very productive running game will create all kinds of space for TO to run free in the secondary. TO makes space for himself regardless of the double or triple coverage he receives, but now being on a team that can actually run 50% of the time I see alot of big big big plays for TO next season if he plays in Denver, and Plummer becomes an instant top #5 fantasy QB.

Denver becomes an instant superbowl contender.
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Postby eaglesrule » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:07 pm

The Eagles passed 70% of the time and TO was their only legitimate receiving threat and look at the numbers TO put up when he played in Philly, something like 20 touchdowns in 21 games. Clearly teams, knowing the Eagles were going to pass most of time, and pass to TO, still couldnt' stop him.

You can't convince me that Plummer is any less accurate than McNabb, or worse as a scrambler, or has a weaker arm than McNabb.


This analysis is more than a tad inaccurate.

First of all, the eagles had one of the deadliest receiving threats out of the backfield in football. They also had a talented, if inconsistent tightend in LJ smith. And as dumb and sucky as he is, Todd Pinkston led receivers in 50 plus yard catches, so he was certainly a threat. (2004)

Also, Plummer and McNabb are certianly in the same ballpark in terms of accuracy. If you really look at it, pre TO, the Eagles had about 13 incomplete passes per game. Are you telling me that Pinkston, Thrash et all weren't responsible for just one of those per game? If you hang 12 on McNabb and 1 ont he receivers, you know McNabb goes over 60 percent? You give back 1 and a half, he is elite in completion percentage. mcNabb is certainly no manning or brady but still.

Arm strength? McNabb is regarded by his peers as having one of the strongest, but could be a push.

Scrambling? McNabb is superior to plummer in that regard. His stats were typically better, and I have never seen Plummer put on the jukes that mcnabb has, much less complete a pass like mcnabb did against the cowboys to freddie mitchell. he shucked and jived for like 13 seconds and landed a bomb.

I like Plummer, I really do, and want to see him succeed. On the other hand, many have a tendency to downplay mcnabb for his faults, conveniently forgetting the facts I listed before, forgetting that other than brady and farve, he has the best playoff record, forgetting that his first 3-4 years, he was 90 percent of the offense on a playoff team, and forgetting that the Eagles are one of the winningest teams of this decade.

Granted, not all of that applies fantasy wise, butstill.

You still have to have manning over him, bulger, a healthy chad johnson, mcnabb (he has produced without TO), Brady and probably hass.
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Postby Plindsey88 » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:43 pm

Denver does have a spare first rounder, and the Eagles don't have all that bad of a pick in the 2nd round... I could maybe see Denver giving up their #29 overall for Owens and Philly's #46...

Once Owens hits the free agent market, Denver will be bidding against teams with more cap room than they have for Owens' services... It's not really a bad move on their part...

And it would allow Philly to pick up a top OT or WR in the late first (after they draft Ryans or Greenway at #14)...
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Postby merc » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:48 pm

Okay... so is TO gonna be in Denver or KC???

I got TO and might want to also have his QB as my bench QB in my current draft??

What is everyone's best guess as to where TO will end up? :-D
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Postby eaglesrule » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:55 pm

I would doubt philly gives up their second round pick though--they like them for the value/price ratio it represents. So, they would have two first rounders essentially, but one in the middle, one late.

One would think they might use that second rounder as ammo to move up in the draft.

Although to get rid of owens to the afc, and get something good out of it isn't bad either. In that scenario, it owuld almost be like trading a second round pick for a first... interesting to see.

But to those who think it is "stupid" to trade for him, I would say that for CERTAIN teams, there is a logic to it. You could get him "free", but that is just it, you could. A trade, you "will" get him.
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Postby merc » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:06 pm

Since, if folks here are correct, TO is garbage for the Eagles to dispose, then... most any team might offer a 3, 4, 10th pick for him and get him if no previous picks were offered?

Then again, if most folks here on FFC were wrong, ...... he might end up... ...................................?
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Postby maddog60 » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:13 pm

eaglesrule wrote:I would doubt philly gives up their second round pick though--they like them for the value/price ratio it represents. So, they would have two first rounders essentially, but one in the middle, one late.

One would think they might use that second rounder as ammo to move up in the draft.

Although to get rid of owens to the afc, and get something good out of it isn't bad either. In that scenario, it owuld almost be like trading a second round pick for a first... interesting to see.

But to those who think it is "stupid" to trade for him, I would say that for CERTAIN teams, there is a logic to it. You could get him "free", but that is just it, you could. A trade, you "will" get him.


Actually, I could see the Eagles benefitting from having one mid-1st and one late-1st.

They need to draft a quality OT, and that is a little chancy in the 2nd round, but late 1st round should still provide the 4th or 5th best prospect at that position. That allows them great flexibility if they can get that need filled with either pick. Perhaps they use the mid-1st on a guy like Chad Greenway, or Tamba Hali, if they can acquire Eric Moulds (likely cap casualty). Worst case scenario, they spend the mid-1st on an OT, and can almost gaurantee Martin Nance or Hank Baskett (they need that big WR) is available with their next pick.
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Postby merc » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:23 pm

Actually, I could see the Eagles benefitting from having one mid-1st and one late-1st.
I think if it goes to actual trading time... TO will veto them all and simply report to the team with his best likeiliness factor, and kick ass for whatever team he can play for in 2006....

IMO, I think he is simply a very proud and knowledgeable football player who wants to be the best WR while also being paid as such... at the same tiime. ;-D
Last edited by merc on Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby eaglesrule » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:24 pm

I am inclined to agree, I only looked at it from one side when I posted that.

If you really think about it, TO is nothing in the equation, so the eagles would essentially be upgrading the pick the do have.

I doubt they get that though. I woul dbe happy with a fifth-rounder to be honest.

I think the key to the Eagles is not to extract every last bit of value if talks commence. If something is pretty decent, just jump on it, rather than risking it and having it fall through.
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Postby merc » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:26 pm

The part of the whole TO picture is that not many folks figure that T. Owens NOW controls his entire future....
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