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Postby mysticphysh » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:22 pm

Mercer Boy wrote:
chaindog35 wrote:My main reason for SD to keep Brees is if they want to win now. the window of opportunity to win it all is very small in the NFL. LT only has a few prime years left in him. He'll be 27 next season and will probably be in his prime for 2-3 more years and then will have a couple decent years after that. Personally, i would want to keep brees and take my shot at winning it all with LT in his prime, rather than having a young qb take time to develop.


Agreed! If they go thrusting a new QB into an offense that has been working great for two years they run the risk of ruining team chemistry, not to mention the time it'll take Rivers to mature in game situations. They are stuck in a bind though since Brees is hurt.

This isn't like Pittsburgh where they had no other option but to use Roethlisberger because everyone else was sub-par...the Chargers have a very capable QB that has proved to be pretty stable and smart with the football. Steve Young waited a long time to become the man in SF...why can't Rivers?


These are different times. Now-a-days, high draft rookies are paid so much, there's almost a pressure to get them in there to play. With a salary cap, you can't afford to dump a bunch of money at a rookie and then have him stand on the sidelines for4-5 years to learn.
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:31 pm

mysticphysh wrote:
Mercer Boy wrote:
chaindog35 wrote:My main reason for SD to keep Brees is if they want to win now. the window of opportunity to win it all is very small in the NFL. LT only has a few prime years left in him. He'll be 27 next season and will probably be in his prime for 2-3 more years and then will have a couple decent years after that. Personally, i would want to keep brees and take my shot at winning it all with LT in his prime, rather than having a young qb take time to develop.


Agreed! If they go thrusting a new QB into an offense that has been working great for two years they run the risk of ruining team chemistry, not to mention the time it'll take Rivers to mature in game situations. They are stuck in a bind though since Brees is hurt.

This isn't like Pittsburgh where they had no other option but to use Roethlisberger because everyone else was sub-par...the Chargers have a very capable QB that has proved to be pretty stable and smart with the football. Steve Young waited a long time to become the man in SF...why can't Rivers?


These are different times. Now-a-days, high draft rookies are paid so much, there's almost a pressure to get them in there to play. With a salary cap, you can't afford to dump a bunch of money at a rookie and then have him stand on the sidelines for4-5 years to learn.


seriously. I'll guess and say River's cap number this year will be something like 4.5-5 million dollars, maybe more. Brees' cap number, and we're assuming he is franchised (only hypothetical... not going to happen), would be something like 8.5 million. For the sake of argument, we'd say that the cap number for 3rd backup A.J. Feeley is 1 million. So, at the best scenario, the cap hit for one position would be 14 million. We will further assume the cap limit this year (frankly because I do not know and am too lazy to look it up) is 93 million. That would mean that a team would have to allocate approximently 15% of its entire cap to one position, when it is more than likely that one player will play most of the year, and therefore 21 other starters must be signed (along with their backups) for the remaining 85%.

No way, no how. They can't keep both any longer... this is the year one leaves... and good money in on Brees to go.
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Postby maddog60 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:41 pm

no1cowboysfan wrote:seriously. I'll guess and say River's cap number this year will be something like 4.5-5 million dollars, maybe more. Brees' cap number, and we're assuming he is franchised (only hypothetical... not going to happen), would be something like 8.5 million. For the sake of argument, we'd say that the cap number for 3rd backup A.J. Feeley is 1 million. So, at the best scenario, the cap hit for one position would be 14 million. We will further assume the cap limit this year (frankly because I do not know and am too lazy to look it up) is 93 million. That would mean that a team would have to allocate approximently 15% of its entire cap to one position, when it is more than likely that one player will play most of the year, and therefore 21 other starters must be signed (along with their backups) for the remaining 85%.

No way, no how. They can't keep both any longer... this is the year one leaves... and good money in on Brees to go.


And the Chargers are 21 million under the cap. They still have over 12 million to play with in resigning their free agents (none of the unrestricted's other than Brees is of any huge significance) and making addtions to the WR corps, O-line, and secondary.

One third of the cap room they have to work with in order to assure the most important position in on the entire team is secured and quality. That's a small price to pay.
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Postby mysticphysh » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:42 pm

no1cowboysfan wrote:
mysticphysh wrote:
Mercer Boy wrote:
chaindog35 wrote:My main reason for SD to keep Brees is if they want to win now. the window of opportunity to win it all is very small in the NFL. LT only has a few prime years left in him. He'll be 27 next season and will probably be in his prime for 2-3 more years and then will have a couple decent years after that. Personally, i would want to keep brees and take my shot at winning it all with LT in his prime, rather than having a young qb take time to develop.


Agreed! If they go thrusting a new QB into an offense that has been working great for two years they run the risk of ruining team chemistry, not to mention the time it'll take Rivers to mature in game situations. They are stuck in a bind though since Brees is hurt.

This isn't like Pittsburgh where they had no other option but to use Roethlisberger because everyone else was sub-par...the Chargers have a very capable QB that has proved to be pretty stable and smart with the football. Steve Young waited a long time to become the man in SF...why can't Rivers?


These are different times. Now-a-days, high draft rookies are paid so much, there's almost a pressure to get them in there to play. With a salary cap, you can't afford to dump a bunch of money at a rookie and then have him stand on the sidelines for4-5 years to learn.


seriously. I'll guess and say River's cap number this year will be something like 4.5-5 million dollars, maybe more. Brees' cap number, and we're assuming he is franchised (only hypothetical... not going to happen), would be something like 8.5 million. For the sake of argument, we'd say that the cap number for 3rd backup A.J. Feeley is 1 million. So, at the best scenario, the cap hit for one position would be 14 million. We will further assume the cap limit this year (frankly because I do not know and am too lazy to look it up) is 93 million. That would mean that a team would have to allocate approximently 15% of its entire cap to one position, when it is more than likely that one player will play most of the year, and therefore 21 other starters must be signed (along with their backups) for the remaining 85%.

No way, no how. They can't keep both any longer... this is the year one leaves... and good money in on Brees to go.


I agree, Brees will probably be gone. There's no way SD shells out that much money to franchise a guy who may or may not be ready to play next year. You can bet Brees won't sign a smaller, short-term contract either.

I say SD lets Brees go. Rivers has a pretty good team around him to help him succeed. I mean, look at Palmer in Cincy. He sat for a year, didn't play one single snap, but excelled his 2nd year as a first time starter. I'm not saying Rivers is as good as Palmer, but the potential is there.
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:55 pm

maddog60 wrote:
no1cowboysfan wrote:seriously. I'll guess and say River's cap number this year will be something like 4.5-5 million dollars, maybe more. Brees' cap number, and we're assuming he is franchised (only hypothetical... not going to happen), would be something like 8.5 million. For the sake of argument, we'd say that the cap number for 3rd backup A.J. Feeley is 1 million. So, at the best scenario, the cap hit for one position would be 14 million. We will further assume the cap limit this year (frankly because I do not know and am too lazy to look it up) is 93 million. That would mean that a team would have to allocate approximently 15% of its entire cap to one position, when it is more than likely that one player will play most of the year, and therefore 21 other starters must be signed (along with their backups) for the remaining 85%.

No way, no how. They can't keep both any longer... this is the year one leaves... and good money in on Brees to go.


And the Chargers are 21 million under the cap. They still have over 12 million to play with in resigning their free agents (none of the unrestricted's other than Brees is of any huge significance) and making addtions to the WR corps, O-line, and secondary.

One third of the cap room they have to work with in order to assure the most important position in on the entire team is secured and quality. That's a small price to pay.


Yeah, but like I'm sure you are used to as an Eagles fan, the Chargers owners and management are extremely tightfisted. Small price to pay? Maybe. But its still money that might not be needed to pay.

And I'm sure that the Chargers are somewhat familiar with Rivers by now... he's heading into his third season with them. He obviously lacks game experience, and will probably stumble out of the gate, but he wasn't drafted fourth for nothing. And he's a very smart player and a good leader, as he showed at NC State.

Don't get me wrong... I love Brees, and I thought the stupidest move the Chargers ever made drafting Eli, then getting Rivers (who I was a big fan of as well... and before his stock blew up, I hoped would fall to Dallas). In retrospect, it was likely Rivers that elevated Brees' game, but watching Brees in SD, I always thought he had the potential, as he was a beast at Purdue. But I think both QBs can excel in San Diego.
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Postby maddog60 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:49 pm

no1cowboysfan wrote:Yeah, but like I'm sure you are used to as an Eagles fan, the Chargers owners and management are extremely tightfisted. Small price to pay? Maybe. But its still money that might not be needed to pay.


No doubt, but the one thing the tightfisted Reid/Lurey Eagles management has done has been to insure there were no question marks at QB. If I recall, when they gave McNabb his big extension he was on rehabbing a broken leg. They paid quite a deal of money, but for proven quality commodities, even the shrewdest teams will pay the market value.

[qoute]And I'm sure that the Chargers are somewhat familiar with Rivers by now... he's heading into his third season with them. He obviously lacks game experience, and will probably stumble out of the gate, but he wasn't drafted fourth for nothing. And he's a very smart player and a good leader, as he showed at NC State. [/quote]

The problem is that Rivers doesnt have that game experience. He was drafted #4 overall because of his potential, but plenty of QBs have potential. Ryan Leaf had potential, and the Chargers especially should remember how risky it is to pin all your hopes on a new QB unless you have no other solid option.

WHen you consider the history of 1st round QBs, its highly unlikely Rivers is a success (not that I'm not rooting for the guy). But look at recent years drafts:

2005 - way to early to tell
2004 - 4 - 2 good, 1 struggling, 1 unknown (Rivers)
2003 - Palmer, Grossman, Boller, and Leftwich. 2 for 4
2002 - Carr, Harrington, Ramsey. 1 for 3 (generous at that)
2001 - Vick. 1 for 1 (again generous)
2000 - Pennington. 0 for 1
1999 - Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith, Culpepper, McNown. 2 for 5
1998 - Manning, Leaf. 1 for 2
1997 - Jim Druckenmiller. 0 for 1
1996 - No QBs taken 1st round.

You can see the trend. If 3 out of 4 QBs from the 1st round of a single draft class turned out to be quality starters, it would be unprecedented. The average is over 50% that a team's 1st round QB pick will be a waste. That's too much of a risk to take when you've got such a primed and competitive team.
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Postby mysticphysh » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:14 am

maddog60 wrote:2002 - Carr, Harrington, Ramsey. 1 for 3 (generous at that)


Which one are you counting? :-b
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Postby Crimedogg32 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:36 am

mysticphysh wrote:
maddog60 wrote:2002 - Carr, Harrington, Ramsey. 1 for 3 (generous at that)


Which one are you counting? :-b


id hope Carr :-?
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Postby logan » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:43 am

Crimedogg32 wrote:
mysticphysh wrote:
maddog60 wrote:2002 - Carr, Harrington, Ramsey. 1 for 3 (generous at that)


Which one are you counting? :-b


id hope Carr :-?


that was my guess.
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Postby merc » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:57 am

Hmmm, a healthy Brees to Miami will lower Brees output a bit but will certainly make McMichael a top 5 TE, Chambers will just blow up and with a passing game, Ron Brown should easily get 1500 total yards.
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