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Reggie Bush Not Working Out At Combines

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Postby UNDEFEATED » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:18 am

Bush for President!!!!
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:28 am

mattb47 wrote:
no1cowboysfan wrote:
maddog60 wrote:[sarcasm]Oh, well this is clearly a sign that he's worried he's not the top rookie prospect or top RB that people think he is. Because if he wasn't he wouldn't worry about having a bad day at the combine and getting shown up be Lendale White or DeAngelo Williams. This must be a sign that he's worried that he isn't capable of being a featured RB, and people should shy away from drafting him. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, it shouldn't a surprise when anyone projected as a lock for being a top 5 pick decides not to do anything. Any team picking in the top 5 will have called the player they pick in for private workouts, so its not only a risk with little reward, but redundant.


Personally, I DON'T think he's the best RB in the draft... by a long shot. But that doesn't mean I disagree with it. His only competition for the #1 spot is Vince Young. And with Carr signed for three more years and Vince ALSO not working out, I can't blame him.


Hmm....then who would you say is the best RB in the draft.....by a long shot?


DeAngelo. No glaing holes... complete back. Reggie, while he may turn out to be the best, has FAR too many question marks.

Size.
Durability.
Inside running.
Endurance. (Reggie has rushed only 3 times in his career more than 20 times a game)
Blocking.
Ran in front of insanely good line in college... Houston?
Too quick to bounce outside (I realize this is similar to the "inside running" problem, but I mean by this that too quickly will he be patient in the backfield, try to take it around the corner, and get gobbled up. Reggie's numbers, while outstanding, are skewed in this respect. Too often would Reggie get taken behind, then break a huge run. Furthermore, I realize the argument"who cares, as long as he gets the yards," but NFL defenses will likely have an easier time containing Bush.)

... to name his biggest concerns.

I like Reggie... I like that he's a blast to watch, I like that he reps the 619, I think its awesome that the same High School will have a #1 Draft pick two years in a row (Helix High, from SDC).

I just wouldn't draft him first overall. And personally, I think LenDale will probably turnout to be a better NFL RB than Reg.

But the safest, probably the smartest, all-around back of the top 3, in my opinion, is DeAngelo.
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:10 am

no1cowboysfan wrote:Durability.
Endurance. (Reggie has rushed only 3 times in his career more than 20 times a game)


Reggie also touches the ball a lot in the passing game and in the return game. He actually averaged just as many touches this year as the top RBs in the NFL did, and was never really affected by injury in his career.

Bulletproof DeAngelo meanwhile, has been nagged by injuries his entire career, yet he doesn't have a problem with durability?

And let's not forget that explosive backs like Reggie who make half their living catching the ball out of the backfield don't need 20+ carries a game to be effective. Marshall averaged 15 carries per game during his best season.
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:01 am

I agree with you Free Bagel, and also, the argument on Reggie's size is not a good one. There are many RBs in the NFL who are Reggie's size and they are excellent RBs. Let's compare:

Reggie Bush: 6'0", 200 lbs

Tiki Barber: 5'10", 200 lbs
Marshall Faulk: 5'10", 211 lbs
LaDanian Tomlinson: 5'10", 221 lbs
Priest Holmes: 5'9", 213 lbs
Edgerrin James: 6'0", 213 lbs
Clinton Portis: 5'11", 212 lbs
Cadillac Williams: 5'11", 217 lbs
Julius Jones: 5'10", 211 lbs
Warrick Dunn: 5'9", 180

Sorry, but the size argument doesn't really account for much here, I think Bush can easily be taught to run between the tackles and still have room for his game breaking speed and quickness to be there as well.
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:51 am

Bush is actually expected to measure about 5'11" 210lbs. at the combine as well, which is right around where many NFL RBs have had great careers.
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:52 am

mattb47 wrote:I agree with you Free Bagel, and also, the argument on Reggie's size is not a good one. There are many RBs in the NFL who are Reggie's size and they are excellent RBs. Let's compare:

Reggie Bush: 6'0", 200 lbs

Tiki Barber: 5'10", 200 lbs
Marshall Faulk: 5'10", 211 lbs
LaDanian Tomlinson: 5'10", 221 lbs
Priest Holmes: 5'9", 213 lbs
Edgerrin James: 6'0", 213 lbs
Clinton Portis: 5'11", 212 lbs
Cadillac Williams: 5'11", 217 lbs
Julius Jones: 5'10", 211 lbs
Warrick Dunn: 5'9", 180

Sorry, but the size argument doesn't really account for much here, I think Bush can easily be taught to run between the tackles and still have room for his game breaking speed and quickness to be there as well.


Are you actually trying to say a 6 foot 200 lb guy of similar size to a 5 foot 10 220 lb guy? Not only is 20 lbs a huge difference, but on a shorter RB, its going to make them even more compact, durable, and stoutish. Hardly any of these comparisons are too "similar" sized RBs.
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Postby knapplc » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:09 pm

maddog60 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:I agree with you Free Bagel, and also, the argument on Reggie's size is not a good one. There are many RBs in the NFL who are Reggie's size and they are excellent RBs. Let's compare:

Reggie Bush: 6'0", 200 lbs

Tiki Barber: 5'10", 200 lbs
Marshall Faulk: 5'10", 211 lbs
LaDanian Tomlinson: 5'10", 221 lbs
Priest Holmes: 5'9", 213 lbs
Edgerrin James: 6'0", 213 lbs
Clinton Portis: 5'11", 212 lbs
Cadillac Williams: 5'11", 217 lbs
Julius Jones: 5'10", 211 lbs
Warrick Dunn: 5'9", 180

Sorry, but the size argument doesn't really account for much here, I think Bush can easily be taught to run between the tackles and still have room for his game breaking speed and quickness to be there as well.


Are you actually trying to say a 6 foot 200 lb guy of similar size to a 5 foot 10 220 lb guy? Not only is 20 lbs a huge difference, but on a shorter RB, its going to make them even more compact, durable, and stoutish. Hardly any of these comparisons are too "similar" sized RBs.

I'd say these are all comparable backs. Bush as a rookie is of a similar build to all of these guys plus or minus a couple of inches. With Bush at 5'11" (realistically) there isn't more than two inches of difference between any of these guys. I doubt you could make an argument that two inches is going to drastically affect his NFL success. Were that to be the case all successful backs would be in a very small size range, and we all know that's not the case.

Bush should be OK in the NFL, and he may be great. But that's the same argument that could be made right now about LenDale White and DeAngelo, too.

I think there is a real surplus of talented backs in the NFL right now. That could have as much of an impact on Bush's perceived greatness as anything - he may not stand out among the crowd with all of these guys in the league at the same time.
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:14 pm

maddog60 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:I agree with you Free Bagel, and also, the argument on Reggie's size is not a good one. There are many RBs in the NFL who are Reggie's size and they are excellent RBs. Let's compare:

Reggie Bush: 6'0", 200 lbs

Tiki Barber: 5'10", 200 lbs
Marshall Faulk: 5'10", 211 lbs
LaDanian Tomlinson: 5'10", 221 lbs
Priest Holmes: 5'9", 213 lbs
Edgerrin James: 6'0", 213 lbs
Clinton Portis: 5'11", 212 lbs
Cadillac Williams: 5'11", 217 lbs
Julius Jones: 5'10", 211 lbs
Warrick Dunn: 5'9", 180

Sorry, but the size argument doesn't really account for much here, I think Bush can easily be taught to run between the tackles and still have room for his game breaking speed and quickness to be there as well.


Are you actually trying to say a 6 foot 200 lb guy of similar size to a 5 foot 10 220 lb guy? Not only is 20 lbs a huge difference, but on a shorter RB, its going to make them even more compact, durable, and stoutish. Hardly any of these comparisons are too "similar" sized RBs.


Are you actually trying to say that the weight Bush is now is going to be the weight he is when he's the age of these guys? You gotta believe that Bush is going to gain a little more muscle and I think he'll end up around the 210 range.
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:07 pm

mattb47 wrote:Are you actually trying to say that the weight Bush is now is going to be the weight he is when he's the age of these guys? You gotta believe that Bush is going to gain a little more muscle and I think he'll end up around the 210 range.


If he puts on weight that's one thing, but hmm, if he needs to put on weight to be comparable to these guys, what does that say? He's not comparable now. And if he does put on 10-15 lbs, you have to wonder what that might do to his elusiveness, which is the sole reason people are so enamored by the threat he possesses. You can't just assume the man is going to have the identical set of atheltic skills if he adds 10-15 lbs, it can slow you down. But as he stands, a 6 foot 200 lb RB is in no way comparable to a shorter RB with 221 lbs. If you want proof, go weigh yourself at the gym, and find a guy your height or smaller with 20 more lbs of muscle, and see the difference for yourself.
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:16 pm

maddog60 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:Are you actually trying to say that the weight Bush is now is going to be the weight he is when he's the age of these guys? You gotta believe that Bush is going to gain a little more muscle and I think he'll end up around the 210 range.


If he puts on weight that's one thing, but hmm, if he needs to put on weight to be comparable to these guys, what does that say? He's not comparable now. And if he does put on 10-15 lbs, you have to wonder what that might do to his elusiveness, which is the sole reason people are so enamored by the threat he possesses. You can't just assume the man is going to have the identical set of atheltic skills if he adds 10-15 lbs, it can slow you down. But as he stands, a 6 foot 200 lb RB is in no way comparable to a shorter RB with 221 lbs. If you want proof, go weigh yourself at the gym, and find a guy your height or smaller with 20 more lbs of muscle, and see the difference for yourself.


I like how you ignored the other 8 guys i put out there that aren't 221 lbs. What I was trying to say, was that the guys I posted here weren't the same weight when they came into the NFL as they are now. Bush is a similar build to all these backs and some are obviously going to be a bit heavier than others, everyone's body is different. Some people are going to have the same kind of power at different weights than others. But to say there's no comparison is blindly believing what you already think about Bush. You can't ignore the very close similarities in size (i'm not just talking about height and weight either, but to their acutal build similarities) to guys like Barber, Faulk, Priest, Portis, Jones, and Dunn.
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