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Postby Ydub » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:13 am

Snyder is gonna be kickin himself in the a$$ down the road. All dumb signings/trade.

Ladies and Gentlemen...meet the smerf squad and an overpaid DE/LB. Good job Snyder. ;-D ;-D :-b

The Archuleta signing was the only good one.

Thank God Ben Roethlisberger isn't a FA...Only God knows how much Snyder would pay for him. Hmmm, maybe God wouldn't know.


I don't get this at all. Do you people honestly think that Daniel Snyder is sitting in his 24k gold plated office, juggling Faberge Eggs and picking player names out of cashmere hat? This guy has assembled a world class coaching staff(legendary - Joe Gibbs, arguably the brightest offensive mind in the NFL- Al Saunders, and the guy every GM coveted for their HC vacancies this season- Gregg Williams). Why? So they can sit there like dumbbells while Danny Boy runs the team into the ground. I'm not buyin' it.

The Lloyd trade and subsequent Randle El signing is pure Saunders. These are exactly the type of receivers (size and ability) that Saunders prefers. Let's compare the Chiefs current #1 -#3 WR's(handpicked by Saunders) to the Redskins #1 -#3 WR's (again, other than Moss, picked by Saunders).

KC: #1 WR - Eddie Kennison (6'1", 201)
#2 WR - Samie Parker (5'10", 192)
#3 WR - Dante Hall (5'8", 187)

Avg. height and weight: 5'10 2/3", 192 2/3

WAS: #1 WR - Santana Moss (5'10", 190)
#2 WR - Brandon Lloyd (6'0", 192)
#3 WR - Antwan Randle El (5'10", 192)

Avg. height and weight: 5'10 2/3", 191 1/3

BTW, which group of WR's would you rather have?

And other than Dante Hall these "smurfs" are relative giants when compared to this seasons #1 WR (Steve Smith - 5'9" 185). Oh, and Moss wasn't too shabby either (1483 yds, 9 TD's). In fact the top 3 WR's in the NFL this season avg....you guessed it 5'10 2/3, 189. Sensing a pattern. With the league's new emphasis on illegal contact height really isn't the determing factor it once was when evaluating a WR. And it never has been factor for Saunders. His offenses have ranked #1 in the NFL in points scored and/or cumulative yardage for the past four seasons. Remarkable.

Gregg Williams' defensive scheme and personnel has been absolutely dominant the past two seasons. He's allowed highly regarded defensive players like Champ Bailey, Fred Smoot, Antonio Pierce, and now LeVar Arrington to exit stage left and somehow managed to improve the defense each season. If he thinks Archuleta and Andre Carter are the "missing links", I'm inclined to believe him.

As far as Snyder's "out of control" spending and circumvention of the cap is concerned..here's my theory. While observing Paul Tagilibue gave his "win one for the Gipper" speech right before the CBA deadline, he was silently plotting his revenge on all of the smaller market owners who were taking an even larger piece of the revenue he was generating. Let's face it, Daniel Snyder operating/business model for the Redskins organization is the gold standard in the NFL. Every owner with an interest in running a profitible franchise has tried their best to copy it. However, no one has been able to replicate his results. So rather than take "their lumps" and learn the hard way, they would rather travel a simpler route. More revenue sharing. Of course, Danny is incensed. But he knows the value of labor peace and there are no martyrs in business. So he goes along with the program and casts his vote for the new CBA.

He realizes that the only way to get back at these guys, to hit these tightwads where it hurts...is the wallet. Danny decides to blow up the market. You see, Danny knows that he can basically throw as much signing bonus money at whomever he wants. Especially if it's up front. The coaches pick the players they want. Danny tells Cerrato to sic 'em. Danny and his front office know every single loophole in the cap. Danny knows how to take advantage of the cap (any American who doesn't employ this tactic when filing their taxes is a complete moron). Danny gets his revenge. Danny is doing exactly what you or I would do given the same circumstances (we had all the money in the world and owned our favorite NFL franchise).
Last edited by Ydub on Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby terpfan » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:19 am

Thanks alot for that Y-dub. Good to hear a Chiefs fan's perspective about Saunders, in particular. That, and you made alot of my points for me. ;-D
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Postby jh2031 » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:38 am

Ydub -

I see you mentioned that Al Saunders is great with small WR's and how he led some great passing offenses and offenses in general that ranked #1, yet you left out the best offensive line/best RB at the time Priest Holmes/and a pretty good QB. That helps WR's if you didn't know. ;-D

You also mentioned some WR's that are smaller...Steve Smith and Santana Moss. Those are some exceptions. If you believe Randle El is a shining WR and is worth the 31 million, 11.5 million bonus...then be my guest. I saw him here in Pittsburgh for years and the guy is a bad WR. He had 1...that's right, 1! TD all last season. Not to mention that came in the first game against a terrible Titans D. If he wants to pay that much for a punt returner/gadget play/overrated WR, then he can. Randle El is the next Larry Brown/Dexter Jackson MVP bust the next year.

Lastly, I have nothing against Snyder personally. I hate how he throws money around at so so athletes most of the time but what can I do about it? Nothing.
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Postby Ydub » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:21 am

terpfan wrote:Thanks alot for that Y-dub. Good to hear a Chiefs fan's perspective about Saunders, in particular. That, and you made alot of my points for me. ;-D


I just get sick and tired of reading ignorant crap like "Snyder sucks donkey pole", "Danny boy is an A$$ pirate", "the Skins are gonna burn in cap hell for eternity", and the like. Hearing that kind of nonsense from a Cowboy fan is especially grating. Over the years, Snyder has simply taken the pages out of Jerry Jones' playbook and expanded upon them. Get over it.

As far as Saunders is concerned, the guy is just flat out brilliant. Never have I seen a guy do more with less. Take Trent Green. Great example of guy who has nothing more than average NFL talent turning into an elite NFL player. No hand cannon. No wheels. Just tremendous work ethic and the guts of a burglar. Never seen a better blocking QB in 20 years of watching NFL football. Never. When he originally came to KC every throw had a different release point, consistently locked on to receivers, had lousy footwork, thought he was a scrambler. Now, the guy is like a metronome. He's a textbook example of how an NFL QB should play. His release point is the same, his footwork is terrific, his progression reads are astounding, he never bolts from the pocket unless he's guaranteed to pickup a 1st down. Always confident and in control of his surroundings. There were moments in 2001 when I thought he might break down and cry on the sidelines or hang himself on the visitor's goalpost. Now, he's a friggin' General. Check out his numbers Terp. His completion % rose every season from '01-'05 (from 56.6 -66.4). And all of this after his 31st birthday and not one single WR with elite talent(never had the luxury of throwing to guy like Santana Moss) Granted, he put in the hard work. But so did the coaching staff. More specifically...Saunders. Trust me, Jason Campbell and the Redskins offense is in excellent hands.

Stick around and I may tell you the story of guy who scored 27 TD's that I probably could've smoked in a 40.
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:48 am

Ydub wrote: I just get sick and tired of reading ignorant crap like "Snyder sucks donkey pole", "Danny boy is an A$$ pirate", "the Skins are gonna burn in cap hell for eternity", and the like. Hearing that kind of nonsense from a Cowboy fan is especially grating. Over the years, Snyder has simply taken the pages out of Jerry Jones' playbook and expanded upon them. Get over it.


Hey, first off, I'd like to thank you for singling out Cowboys fans with your overheated, inflammatory remarks. Yes, of course we hate Snyder. As opposed to everyone else in the league who, wait... yeah, still hate Snyder. We simply began the "hate Snyder" bandwagon.

Next, lets dive into your remarks of "Snyder has taken the pages ..." blah blah blah. I wasn't aware Jerry Jones was a mastermind of the salary cap, nor did I know he was particularily aggressive the way Snyder is in FA. You see, Jerry spent a lot of money when there wasn't this thing called a "salary cap." Oh, he might have tried to keep all his players once the cap was imposed ... we all know about Deion ... but we really only were able to do that for a year or two before our dynasty came crumbling down. Snyder, on the other hand, has been pulling his crap for the better part of a decade.

And yes, Cowboys were aggressive in FA last year ... where we signed 3-4 players day 1. However, we were well below the cap figure last year, and this year I may add. Danny Boy, on the other hand, seems to be astronomically over the cap. every year, and comes out of the gate swinging.

Really, the ONLY comparision you can make about these guys are:

A) They are both owners.
B) They both think they should be GMs, too. Why not.
C) If there were no cap, they'd be the Yankees and Red Sox. Don't ask which would be which, because I have no idea. Doesn't matter.

That's about it.

You know what I'm sick of?

I'm sick of Danny Boy, oh yes ... I'm sick of him and his spending and the fact that he draws the best players to his team year after year. But I love seeing him fail ... he may not for a while yet, but when Danny Boy's empire collapses on his rotund face, and it always does, I love seeing him try t pick up the pieces. I loved the streak of games we embarrassed the Skins in. Of course, we need to start a new one after last year's debauchery, but hey ... they had to get lucky sometime. Twice.

But what I'm REALLY sick of are people on the other end ... people who throw out bias at Dallas for being what we haven't been for about a decade. Sure, we have our fans that the rest of us wish weren't, but every team does. And I've seen plenty of Chiefs fans that embarass the rest.

Point is, we have a damned right to hate Snyder. Just as they have a right to hate Jerry. And imbeciles who just run their mouths because they wish they had a rivalry people gave two craps about is especially "grating" to me.
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Postby mysticphysh » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:58 am

no1cowboysfan wrote: And I've seen plenty of Chiefs fans that embarass the rest.



You mean like those guys who wear dresses and pig noses? :-b
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Postby Ydub » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:00 am

jh2031 wrote:Ydub -

I see you mentioned that Al Saunders is great with small WR's and how he led some great passing offenses and offenses in general that ranked #1, yet you left out the best offensive line/best RB at the time Priest Holmes/and a pretty good QB. That helps WR's if you didn't know. ;-D

You also mentioned some WR's that are smaller...Steve Smith and Santana Moss. Those are some exceptions. If you believe Randle El is a shining WR and is worth the 31 million, 11.5 million bonus...then be my guest. I saw him here in Pittsburgh for years and the guy is a bad WR. He had 1...that's right, 1! TD all last season. Not to mention that came in the first game against a terrible Titans D. If he wants to pay that much for a punt returner/gadget play/overrated WR, then he can. Randle El is the next Larry Brown/Dexter Jackson MVP bust the next year.

Lastly, I have nothing against Snyder personally. I hate how he throws money around at so so athletes most of the time but what can I do about it? Nothing.


You're right. Randle El's contract is absurd. It's an obscene amount of money to pay for a "punt returner/gadget play/overrated WR", ok? You know what? Who cares? Not my point.

And I don't think that Randle El is a "shining" WR (which is why I placed him in the #3 slot behind Lloyd). He's the perfect compliment for Saunders' offensive scheme. He's a Dante Hall clone. He's the guy Saunders wanted. And Snyder stroked the check. And the Redskins (if not the rest of the league) will be a better off because of it.

As far as the rest of the Chiefs offense is concerned, good point. We have and have had a tremendous offensive line. And you're right Priest Holmes was a damn good running back. I love him to death and he's probably my favorite player of all time. But, I'll let you in on a dirty little secret that most Chiefs fans already know: Other than his tremendous vision...not that talented. Not overpowering and nothing resembling game breaking speed. Never seen a guy balance monk-like patience and reckless disregard for his personal well being like Priest. But he also happened to be in an offense which was perfectly suited to his skill set. Priest was never the catalyst, just a highly ported and polished part of a well running machine (we saw what could happen with a RB with legitimate first round talent could do in the KC offense last season, and it wasn't Priest). I guess my point is that Portis has quite a bit more natural talent than Priest. I'm really interested in finding out what Saunders can do with him.

By the way, I wasn't specifically directing my post at you JH. Your post just kind of encapsulated what the majority of the Snyder bashers were whining about. No harm intended ;-D
Last edited by Ydub on Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ydub » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:38 am

no1cowboysfan wrote:
Ydub wrote: I just get sick and tired of reading ignorant crap like "Snyder sucks donkey pole", "Danny boy is an A$$ pirate", "the Skins are gonna burn in cap hell for eternity", and the like. Hearing that kind of nonsense from a Cowboy fan is especially grating. Over the years, Snyder has simply taken the pages out of Jerry Jones' playbook and expanded upon them. Get over it.


Hey, first off, I'd like to thank you for singling out Cowboys fans with your overheated, inflammatory remarks. Yes, of course we hate Snyder. As opposed to everyone else in the league who, wait... yeah, still hate Snyder. We simply began the "hate Snyder" bandwagon.

Next, lets dive into your remarks of "Snyder has taken the pages ..." blah blah blah. I wasn't aware Jerry Jones was a mastermind of the salary cap, nor did I know he was particularily aggressive the way Snyder is in FA. You see, Jerry spent a lot of money when there wasn't this thing called a "salary cap." Oh, he might have tried to keep all his players once the cap was imposed ... we all know about Deion ... but we really only were able to do that for a year or two before our dynasty came crumbling down. Snyder, on the other hand, has been pulling his crap for the better part of a decade.

And yes, Cowboys were aggressive in FA last year ... where we signed 3-4 players day 1. However, we were well below the cap figure last year, and this year I may add. Danny Boy, on the other hand, seems to be astronomically over the cap. every year, and comes out of the gate swinging.

Really, the ONLY comparision you can make about these guys are:

A) They are both owners.
B) They both think they should be GMs, too. Why not.
C) If there were no cap, they'd be the Yankees and Red Sox. Don't ask which would be which, because I have no idea. Doesn't matter.

That's about it.

You know what I'm sick of?

I'm sick of Danny Boy, oh yes ... I'm sick of him and his spending and the fact that he draws the best players to his team year after year. But I love seeing him fail ... he may not for a while yet, but when Danny Boy's empire collapses on his rotund face, and it always does, I love seeing him try t pick up the pieces. I loved the streak of games we embarrassed the Skins in. Of course, we need to start a new one after last year's debauchery, but hey ... they had to get lucky sometime. Twice.

But what I'm REALLY sick of are people on the other end ... people who throw out bias at Dallas for being what we haven't been for about a decade. Sure, we have our fans that the rest of us wish weren't, but every team does. And I've seen plenty of Chiefs fans that embarass the rest.

Point is, we have a damned right to hate Snyder. Just as they have a right to hate Jerry. And imbeciles who just run their mouths because they wish they had a rivalry people gave two craps about is especially "grating" to me.



Never said anything about "embarassing" Cowboy fans. It's just that the whining about Snyder is silly, churlish, and more often than not, unsubstantiated. The truth is, I like Jerry Jones. I like Bill Parcells. I like the Cowboys and what they represent to the NFL and America in general. And when I referred to Snyder "taking pages out Jones' playbook" I wasn't just referring to salary cap manipulation. How about corporate sponsorship, brand management, naming rights, creation of entirely new revenue streams. An owner who was willing to take on and challenge the NFL in a number of arenas and actually win. Jones laid the foundation for a guy like Snyder to come and completely revolutionize the concept of franchise ownership. He's a pioneer. Snyder's just taken it to the next level.

By the way, "overheated and inflammatory"? Are you kidding me. If stating the obvious personally offends you then I apologize. And I'm not so naive to suggest that your personal attacks (the implication that I'm an "imbecile", an "embarassing" Chiefs fan and worst of all "jealous" of the Redskins - Cowboys rivalry) are an idictment of Cowboys fans. They're just an indictment of you.
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Postby no1cowboysfan » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:57 am

Ydub wrote:Never said anything about "embarassing" Cowboy fans. It's just that the whining about Snyder is silly, churlish, and more often than not, unsubstantiated. The truth is, I like Jerry Jones. I like Bill Parcells. I like the Cowboys and what they represent to the NFL and America in general. And when I referred to Snyder "taking pages out Jones' playbook" I wasn't just referring to salary cap manipulation. How about corporate sponsorship, brand management, naming rights, creation of entirely new revenue streams. An owner who was willing to take on and challenge the NFL in a number of arenas and actually win. Jones laid the foundation for a guy like Snyder to come and completely revolutionize the concept of franchise ownership. He's a pioneer. Snyder's just taken it to the next level.

By the way, "overheated and inflammatory"? Are you kidding me. If stating the obvious personally offends you then I apologize. And I'm not so naive to think that your personal attacks (the implication that I'm an "imbecile", an "embarassing" Chiefs fan and worst of all "jealous" of the Redskins - Cowboys rivalry) are an idictment of Cowboys fans. They're just an indictment of you.


Jerry may have laid the groundwork for guys like Snyder to come through, but I'd say currently, they have fairly different philosophies regarding ownership. Regarding new revenue streams and advertising, I don't know where your going... it's still Texas Stadium, and the Cowboys have remained one of the more "traditional" franchises in football (much like the Chiefs and the Pack). Furthermore, while Jerry is still innovative in a number of ways, I'd like to hope and think he's cooled off in many others. He's less of a guy who's "taking on the NFL" regarding certain policies, and portrays a more laid back view now.

As far as the personal attacks, let's not say it was what you said but the way you portrayed it. I quote you at the beginning of your writing, where you claim:

just get sick and tired of reading ignorant crap like "Snyder sucks donkey pole", "Danny boy is an A$$ pirate", "the Skins are gonna burn in cap hell for eternity", and the like. Hearing that kind of nonsense from a Cowboy fan is especially grating.
.

Thank you for portraying fans of my favorite franchise as unintelligent fourteen-year-olds. An attack on our image is as personal attack as any. And maybe this wasn't your perogative, but that is certainly the way it is shown. You see, Cowboys fans often get the stigma of being ignorant rednecks, as you may have noticed. And the more this kind of crap gets repeated, where the best of our arguments can be summed-up in "donkey pole," yes, I take offense.

You'll further note that I never specifically called you an imbecile ... I was stating what grated me the wrong way. However, you can choose to make that an example of my own argument ... in the fact that if you interpreted what I said as imflammatory, I would of course taken what you said from the beginning as inflammatory.

Just cool it with the stereotyping. I don't have anything against you personally, but I'm tired of being associated with backwater hicks because I cheer for a team with different colored pants as yours.
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Postby soupnazi » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:27 am

Folks...doesn't anyone get how Snyder is doing this....it's frickin simple....compounded interest that players earn ain't counting against his cap.

You just heard this guy got $10M signing bonus. But the $10M up front is really worth $13.3M in 4 years. So he really just paid this person $3.3M extra by putting it in the signing bonus versus salary. That 3.3M is not counting against the cap nor coming out of Snyder's pocket. Quite frankly, the other owners are only willing to do thes large signing bonuses for stars like Edge, when they should be doing it for everyone they sign.

$10M is probably salary.

The last $10M is likely roster bonuses that will never be realized, becuase they'll either cut him or make him restructure. So this contract is really a $20M deal (vice 30M) and will count that much against the cap over 4 years. Yet the player will see $23M in his bank account at the end of 4 years.

Snyder also realizes coach's salaries don't count against the cap. So he pays them whatever he needs to. Now he has Gibbs, Williams and Saunders. A better 3 coaches can't be found in the NFL.

This team was 1 win from being in the SB last year. Any offense at all and they would have beaten Seattle, and Carolina sure didn't put up much fight. So I have to think they were the 2nd best team, and will be the best this year. The Giants could step up, and STL could be good if they put some D on the field.
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