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Why is Kurt Warner is so undervalued in redraft leagues?

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Postby mattb47 » Sun May 14, 2006 6:41 pm

Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Crimedogg32 wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Because of the strong possibility that Warner gets taken out at the end of the season and Leinart gets his feet wet.


Exactly. This is almost exactly the same as the situation with Eli.


cards actually have a chance to be good and maybe even compete for playoffs they wont take him out if that is happening.

This is why you couple him with like a Drew Brees or a Jake Delhomme or the 3rd tier QBs and just play the matchups which id almost rather have then Peyton Manning (this is why you dont draft QBs early)


Tell that to the '04 Giants.


Exactly.....that decision by the Giants still boggles my mind.....
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Postby skibrett15 » Sun May 14, 2006 6:51 pm

dirty weasel wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:there shouldn't be. If he starts, he's a top 10 QB, and the backup that you draft is going to score less, but it's not like you lose out completely. PPG outweighs total points sometimes. That might be true for Kurt. He's going to toss some picks though. Plus he didn't toss that many TDs last year. The yardage was solid, but TDs weren't spectacular. I think 3500/21/17 seems reasonable assuming no injury.


While I agree with your TD's/INT's, I think your yardage is way off. How can you take 60 yards off last season's stats for ARI? You just took them from 277 YPG to 217. You don't think ARI will finish in the middle of the pack in passing yardage, do you? Well, that's where you just put them.
maybe i should give a little boost, but Edge is going to take some yardage, and it might be more than you think.
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Postby JStein » Sun May 14, 2006 7:10 pm

skibrett15 wrote:
dirty weasel wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:there shouldn't be. If he starts, he's a top 10 QB, and the backup that you draft is going to score less, but it's not like you lose out completely. PPG outweighs total points sometimes. That might be true for Kurt. He's going to toss some picks though. Plus he didn't toss that many TDs last year. The yardage was solid, but TDs weren't spectacular. I think 3500/21/17 seems reasonable assuming no injury.


While I agree with your TD's/INT's, I think your yardage is way off. How can you take 60 yards off last season's stats for ARI? You just took them from 277 YPG to 217. You don't think ARI will finish in the middle of the pack in passing yardage, do you? Well, that's where you just put them.
maybe i should give a little boost, but Edge is going to take some yardage, and it might be more than you think.

While I'm not disputing anything in specific, remember what type of offense Denny Green ran with the Vikings - a pass-first offense. That said, he knows what types of receivers he has - I think he'll make good use of them.
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Postby Crimedogg32 » Sun May 14, 2006 7:13 pm

Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Crimedogg32 wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Because of the strong possibility that Warner gets taken out at the end of the season and Leinart gets his feet wet.


Exactly. This is almost exactly the same as the situation with Eli.


cards actually have a chance to be good and maybe even compete for playoffs they wont take him out if that is happening.

This is why you couple him with like a Drew Brees or a Jake Delhomme or the 3rd tier QBs and just play the matchups which id almost rather have then Peyton Manning (this is why you dont draft QBs early)


Tell that to the '04 Giants.


exactly the 04 Giants were dumb and they pulled him when they are in contention while he was playing alright. Hopefully the Cards will learn from past mistakes
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Postby dirty weasel » Sun May 14, 2006 8:26 pm

Well, it looks like the majority of people here think similar to the "experts". I, for one, will be happy to pick him up as my QB1 in the late, late rounds (he is averaging round 10 on Antsports right now). I guess only time will tell. And who will I try to get to back him up? Aaron Brooks in the 11th.
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Postby maddog60 » Sun May 14, 2006 9:52 pm

Crimedogg32 wrote:exactly the 04 Giants were dumb and they pulled him when they are in contention while he was playing alright. Hopefully the Cards will learn from past mistakes


I wouldn't say they were dumb for pulling him to put in their franchise QB. Take a look at Cincy. While they didn't do it mid-season, they had a on the cusp playoff bound team with Kitna at the help, and sacrificed an entire year to let Carson Palmer develop.

Whats dumb about what the Giants did, is that they put their rookie QB up against a Murderer's Row of defenses. His first 5 starts consisted of the Skins, Steelers, Falcons, Ravens, and Eagles. 4 of the top 6 defenses in fewest points allowed, the top 2 teams in sacks, 3 of the top 6 rushing defenses in ypc (so you couldn't really count on the running game to bail him out). I mean, in 2004 Eli got probably the toughest test any rookie QB has ever received, facing defenses that could've stifled his brother's numbers. That was a very stupid idea.
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Postby Crimedogg32 » Sun May 14, 2006 9:55 pm

maddog60 wrote:
Crimedogg32 wrote:exactly the 04 Giants were dumb and they pulled him when they are in contention while he was playing alright. Hopefully the Cards will learn from past mistakes


I wouldn't say they were dumb for pulling him to put in their franchise QB. Take a look at Cincy. While they didn't do it mid-season, they had a on the cusp playoff bound team with Kitna at the help, and sacrificed an entire year to let Carson Palmer develop.

Whats dumb about what the Giants did, is that they put their rookie QB up against a Murderer's Row of defenses. His first 5 starts consisted of the Skins, Steelers, Falcons, Ravens, and Eagles. 4 of the top 6 defenses in fewest points allowed, the top 2 teams in sacks, 3 of the top 6 rushing defenses in ypc (so you couldn't really count on the running game to bail him out). I mean, in 2004 Eli got probably the toughest test any rookie QB has ever received, facing defenses that could've stifled his brother's numbers. That was a very stupid idea.


I personally think it is dumb to throw away playoffs chances when you start out good (Wasnt in like 5-2 and they pulled him at 5-4?) To me it makes a lot more sense to do what Cincy did and give him a year to rest (Eli didnt get that) but also to do it from the start so the players know what they are dealing with and they can develops rythms.
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Postby Kensat30 » Sun May 14, 2006 11:32 pm

Crimedogg32 wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Because of the strong possibility that Warner gets taken out at the end of the season and Leinart gets his feet wet.


Exactly. This is almost exactly the same as the situation with Eli.


cards actually have a chance to be good and maybe even compete for playoffs they wont take him out if that is happening.

This is why you couple him with like a Drew Brees or a Jake Delhomme or the 3rd tier QBs and just play the matchups which id almost rather have then Peyton Manning (this is why you dont draft QBs early)


You wanna take your chances on your #1 QB being a starter late in the year (playoff time) vs. Arizona being a good team this year? I don't. Sounds like a losing proposition to me. Warner is an appropriate pick as a highly drafted #2 QB IMO(~QB#15).
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Postby Crimedogg32 » Sun May 14, 2006 11:34 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
Crimedogg32 wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Because of the strong possibility that Warner gets taken out at the end of the season and Leinart gets his feet wet.


Exactly. This is almost exactly the same as the situation with Eli.


cards actually have a chance to be good and maybe even compete for playoffs they wont take him out if that is happening.

This is why you couple him with like a Drew Brees or a Jake Delhomme or the 3rd tier QBs and just play the matchups which id almost rather have then Peyton Manning (this is why you dont draft QBs early)


You wanna take your chances on your #1 QB being a starter late in the year (playoff time) vs. Arizona being a good team this year? I don't. Sounds like a losing proposition to me. Warner is an appropriate pick as a highly drafted #2 QB IMO(~QB#15).


which is why I said you have to pair him with another fringe starting QB and then you can play the matchups each week and if he loses his job you have another guy who can step in.
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Postby Kensat30 » Sun May 14, 2006 11:35 pm

Crimedogg32 wrote:
maddog60 wrote:
Crimedogg32 wrote:exactly the 04 Giants were dumb and they pulled him when they are in contention while he was playing alright. Hopefully the Cards will learn from past mistakes


I wouldn't say they were dumb for pulling him to put in their franchise QB. Take a look at Cincy. While they didn't do it mid-season, they had a on the cusp playoff bound team with Kitna at the help, and sacrificed an entire year to let Carson Palmer develop.

Whats dumb about what the Giants did, is that they put their rookie QB up against a Murderer's Row of defenses. His first 5 starts consisted of the Skins, Steelers, Falcons, Ravens, and Eagles. 4 of the top 6 defenses in fewest points allowed, the top 2 teams in sacks, 3 of the top 6 rushing defenses in ypc (so you couldn't really count on the running game to bail him out). I mean, in 2004 Eli got probably the toughest test any rookie QB has ever received, facing defenses that could've stifled his brother's numbers. That was a very stupid idea.


I personally think it is dumb to throw away playoffs chances when you start out good (Wasnt in like 5-2 and they pulled him at 5-4?) To me it makes a lot more sense to do what Cincy did and give him a year to rest (Eli didnt get that) but also to do it from the start so the players know what they are dealing with and they can develops rythms.


Bengal's just missed the playoffs in Palmer's first year as 16 game starter. And they didn't make the playoffs during Palmer's rookie year by leaving in Kitna for 16 games. The Giant's on the other hand, made the playoffs in Eli's first 16 start year. They probably wouldn't have made the playoffs even if Warner started 16 games (tried to start).

I would say that the NYG method came out ahead.
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