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Postby vickfan07 » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:39 am

i can understand both arguments but i agree with espn for the fact that the all other teams have upgraded greatly besides the eagles. darren howard woo watch out... redskins lost lavar which is hard but they gaiined so much on offense a great cordinator 2 solid reiceievers who can get it done with santana and portis and ur looking at a top 5 offense possibly... the cowgirls even though i hate them have only 2 or 3 holes free safety o line possibly and maybe cornerback
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Postby kurtistb » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:41 am

Truth is the eagles just aren't as good as some of the other teams in that division. I have Washington first, Cowboys second and the Eagles/Giants battling for third.

Position by position they really aren't that strong compared to the other teams in the division with their only clear victory being at QB and in the secondary. The only problem is all the other qb's have far superior talent at the other skill positions negating that advantage by quite a bit.

McNabb is the best in the division (third in the conference btw)
Westbrook is nice but I'd take Portis and Tiki over him.
LJ is decent but would you really take him over Shockey, Cooley or Witten?
Worst wide receivers in the division and if Brown doesn't improve on his percentage of dropped balls they could be the among the worst in the league.
People clown the cowboys about their Oline but the eagles Offensive linemen are exactly the Chiefs.

They fare better on defense but mostly because they have superior talent at the corners. Dline is on par with the rest of the division while the linebacking corp is below average. Even with a superior secondary I would take the skins or cowboys defense over the eagles.
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Postby My team is injured » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:37 pm

kurtistb wrote:Truth is the eagles just aren't as good as some of the other teams in that division. I have Washington first, Cowboys second and the Eagles/Giants battling for third.

Position by position they really aren't that strong compared to the other teams in the division with their only clear victory being at QB and in the secondary. The only problem is all the other qb's have far superior talent at the other skill positions negating that advantage by quite a bit.

McNabb is the best in the division (third in the conference btw)
Westbrook is nice but I'd take Portis and Tiki over him.
LJ is decent but would you really take him over Shockey, Cooley or Witten?
Worst wide receivers in the division and if Brown doesn't improve on his percentage of dropped balls they could be the among the worst in the league.
People clown the cowboys about their Oline but the eagles Offensive linemen are exactly the Chiefs.

They fare better on defense but mostly because they have superior talent at the corners. Dline is on par with the rest of the division while the linebacking corp is below average. Even with a superior secondary I would take the skins or cowboys defense over the eagles.



I actually agree with you for the most part and might even rank the teams exactly the same, but I think the division could go to any of the four teams and don't think the gap is that big between any of the teams

also, position by position, you're not gonna really see any of the teams in the division with a clear advantage at more than a couple positions..

as for your assessment of the offense, I can agree with everything except the O-line part (btw, I think you meant to say "aren't" the chiefs)... I think our O-line is a strong point.. we have runyon and and william (tra) thomas anchoring the tackle positions, thomas has had clotting issues the past 2 seasons but we also drafted justice to back up at the T position... herremans and andrews at guard with max jean drafted to back them up and guys like adrien clarke who can step in if there is an injury and Jamaal Jackson likely to start at C ahead of Fraley.. the weakest point is probably the center-left guard area, but I like our O-line quite a bit and think a lot of guys like clarke, jackson, and herremans gained valuable experience playing last year with the injuries on the line

regarding the defense, I could agree with the skins ahead of the eagles but not really because of personnel but just giving credit where credit is due with greg williams... I personally put the eagles d slightly ahead of the boys but I could see an argument either way

overall, I think the eagles defense will cause enough turnovers and keep the score low enough to give our offense a chance in most games... we don't have a superior offense but have enough playmakers (providing we stay relatively healthy) that don, westbrook, and co. should be able to put up enough points to win many of those games... I see us going around 10-6 and don't know if that will get us into the playoffs or not
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:20 pm

vickfan07 wrote:i can understand both arguments but i agree with espn for the fact that the all other teams have upgraded greatly besides the eagles. darren howard woo watch out... redskins lost lavar which is hard but they gaiined so much on offense a great cordinator 2 solid reiceievers who can get it done with santana and portis and ur looking at a top 5 offense possibly... the cowgirls even though i hate them have only 2 or 3 holes free safety o line possibly and maybe cornerback


Cowboys don't have a problem at CB. They have a problem at FS which they may or may not have fixed.

The plain and simple fact is the eagles didn't look good last year. They finished LAST in the division last year and the other teams in the division got MUCH better while the Eagles didn't.

I think the Eagles are a good team but they are definately the worst in that division on paper. And with Andyu Reid coaching you guys have a decnt coach but also probably the worst in the division. And also you may have the best QB in the division but he proved he's a pretrty big choke artists when the pressure is at it's max. The division was the Eagles before last year while the other 3 teams in the divsion rebuilt. That was the Eagles window to win. The other 3 have now finished their rebuilding and are just flat out better than the Eagles.
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Postby Joeybagadonuts » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:52 pm

eaglesrule wrote:
moochman wrote:I don't think the Iggles are being overlooked. They have more questions than the other teams in that division. McNabb is the best QB in the division, but after that they don't stack up against division rivals.
Recievers. The Iggles are very iffy here, worse in the division. No Burress or Shockey. No S Moss or Cooley. No TO or Witten.
RBs. Iggles again don't fare well. Tiki, Portis are better than Westbrook and the Cowboys have better depth with Julie and Marion.
Defence. Iggles D was real shakey last season. Injuries happen, sure, but more so to teams that are over-matched. Dallas, Washington and the Giants all have better Ds.

Add this up and it's easy to see why the pundits would have looked past the Iggles. They weren't under-rating them, just being realistic. The Iggles are going to have a real dogfight on thier hands and will need much more luck than thier opponants to win the toughest division in football.


well injuries sure as hell matter. Everyone seems to forget that piror to the last year, the eagles were always among the league leaders in points against. considering how many three and outs the offense had last year, combined with injuries makes them look shaky. I mean we are one season removed from three of four secondary members making the pro bowl. and lets not forget that defense absoloutely shutting down LT last year.

RB depth is a problem, but you could also argue that each team in the division has a perfect fit for team needs. in relation to team needs, I think westbrook is every bit the weapon that those other guys are. I'd personally rather have tiki or portis. On the other hand, westbrook is a major mismatch for linebackers etc., that those other guys aren't. Wrestbrook is certianly more explosive on that front.

And no, I don't think the other teams have a secondary like the eagles do when healthy. every defense is good, mind you, and I love the skins d. But the eagles seconday is loaded. The addition of howard and bunkley should magnify that, giving that the opposing qb's won't have as much time this year.

And to say that the eagles don';t have receiving threats is ludicrous. They don't have a cooly, or a witten? I think LJ smith is quite talented than you very much. And no, the eagles don't have a plaxuico, TO or Moss, but they also have a better guy delivering the ball. And Plaxico isn't so awesome as to inspire fear. this same eagles defense has shut down weapons worse than him before: moss, TO, LT come to mind here. They didn't sudddenly forget how.

UI'd say every team in the division has better true Wide outs than the eagles. But that has been true almost for the duration of the eagles winning. Before TO, Keyshawn and Toomer were always better than anything we had, same with coles. The depth after TO when he was with us was bad. And now, while everyone is a c to c plus talent on the wide out front, this does represnet a stronger unit overall than donovan has had to work with in a while. Throw in schoebel and the history of the eagles spread it around philoshopy, I think the O compares favorably. And the eagles have the best kicker, the best pass catching RB, the best QB, and TE's that compare to what the rest of the league has. Shcokey and Whitten are better, but system has something to say for it too.

I think its legit to say the skins have a better d, but giants and boys? We'll see. As far as I am concerned, the stats and history favor the eagles overall. Let's see what the giants ca do when they don't have three total patsies on their schedule = new orleans, and two decimated eagles teams.


Wow, easy on LJ smith, that guy is all promise, he doesn't measure up to Shockey or Witten, totaly different class.

Also easy on Westbrook, the guy has major size issues, that as you mentioned, can work exptionaly well for him if he stays healthy, but he doesn't.

As for Reggie Brown, I think he CAN do well, but let's not anoint anyone a certified #1 just yet. He's not TO (not that you said he was) but more importantly he's not Santana or Plaxico. That is a major difference between the Eagles and the Boys/Giants.

I think the Eagles D on the other hand is under-rated, and the Giants and Cowboys Ds are over-rated. The Giants improved their secondary but man, it was AWFUL last year.

McNabb is the best QB in that league, but one who has never had anything to work with, and who again, has been abandoned by his GM and owner, leaving him with second teir offensive weapons. We've seen what it takes to make the eagles a contender and it's a compliment to Donovan. (Would have been nice if it wasn't a crazy jerk, but hey, take what you can get).

Redskins 1st with Giants or Boys 2nd.

That said, all these teams will beat up on the rest of the league, and I could see every team in there having a decent record.
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Postby daullaz » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:38 am

The Eagles will not finish last in the division again...

Many people have said that the Eagles didn't improve like the rest of the teams in the division did. So let's take a look at that...

Dallas

Drew Bledsoe is still the QB. With the game on the line, is he the guy you really want leading your team down the field? As a Bills fan, my answer is no. Notice how the Pats took off right when Bledsoe wasn't under center? Yes, he had a solid year statistically last year, but in pressure situations there's about 30 guys I'd rather have.

At running back, Julius Jones ain't bad, but defensive coordinators aren't exactly gameplanning to stop him. Same with Barber. Terrell Owens is a great talent, but how exactly will he coexist with Bill Parcells? Philly is glad to be rid of him, I'll tell you that. How will Glenn feel in Owens' shadow?

The defense was upgraded (Carpenter should be good, Watkins and Ayodele will be serviceable) and to me looks like it should be a top-ten defense in the league. If the 'Boys are going to make the playoffs in this division, they'll have to be top-five. Vandy was a big pickup for them, as Dallas has struggled in the kicking game for years. At best, this is another 9-7 team. Chemistry is going to play a big role on offense.

New York

Eli Manning is progressing well. Barber is playing much better in the later years of his career, but he's 31 now. He's headed for a decline; it could be three years from now, but it could just as likely be this year. Sinorice Moss was a great pickup, and he'll need to be ready to contribute immediately.

The defense did great in getting Arrington and Madison. But Arrington is two seasons removed from his last successful campaign, and Madison is 32 and headed for a decline. That secondary is going to be a weak point in my opinion.

Look at that schedule to open the season. Indy at home. At Philly and Seattle. Home against Washington after a week off. At Atlanta and Dallas. That'll be a tough stretch for the G-men, and I don't know if they're up to the task.

Washington

Is Mark Brunell back to being a quality QB? Maybe. But Jason Campbell wasn't drafted to sit on the bench forever. Will that be a distraction? If Campbell does come in, will he be capable of leading this team to the playoffs in his first year?

Clinton Portis is a great back, and the running game shouldn't have many problems. Antwan Randle El was a great pickup, and it will be interesting to see if the Skins take advantage of all his talents. I'm still waiting for Brandon Lloyd to cash in on the hype. Skins definitely have the weakest TEs in the division.

That Skins secondary should be stellar, but I'm not sold on the front-seven. Andre Carter? Warrick Holdman? 2nd round pick Rocky McIntosh? I don't see this as much of an improvement, if any.

After their bye, the Skins have to tackle: Dallas at home; Philly and Tampa on the road; Carolina, Atlanta and Philly at home; New Orleans and St. Louis on the road; New York at home. They'll need to build up some momentum early to get it done. But that's better than what the Giants are looking at.

[slight pause so Giants, Skins and Cowboys supporters can berate my assessments of their teams]

Now let's look at what Philly has done....

McNabb only played nine games last year; he'll be healthy to start '06. Jeff Garcia is a much better backup than McMahon. Westbrook played 12 games last year and should be good to go this year. Clubhouse Cancer (yes, with a capital "C") Owens is gone, and it's not like Philly hasn't found success with Reggie Brown and Jabar Gaffney types before. L.J. Smith can play a key role. The line got much stronger by bringing in Justice and Jean-Gilles while retaining Runyan.

A strong defense became stellar. Kearse, Patterson, Bunkley and Howard will rank right up there with the Giants line, and the depth of Cole, Rayburn and Walker can't be overlooked. Trotter is a beast in the middle, but the OLBs are definitely the weakness of the unit. If Chris Gocong can contribute early, they'll be fine. That secondary is superb, with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkis and Lewis all back together again. This defense can play with anybody.

Akers will be back and healthy also, and his game has always been a big factor in the success of the Eagles. That Eagles' schedule, like the Skins', will be tough toward the end. But I think it's better to pile up the wins early anyway.

Breaking down the schedule

The Eagles will most certainly not go 0-6 in the division again. If all the teams split each of the division series, which is reasonable considering none of the teams in the division are head and shoulders above the others, and they all equal last year's out-of-division record, the standings look like this: NYG 10-6, DAL 9-7, PHI 9-7, WAS 8-8.

Eagles and Redskins get JAC and TEN at home, and HOU and IND on the road. They'll probably lose to the Colts, but those other three are winnable.

Dallas and New York get HOU and IND at home, and JAC and TEN on the road. The Texans play the 'Boys tougher than any game on their schedule. Jacksonville could be tough at home for both teams.

Eagles and Redskins get ATL and CAR at home, and TB and NO on the road. The Panthers are definitely the toughest team of the four, and it'll be tough to win at Tampa.

Dallas and New York get TB and NO at home, and ATL and CAR on the road. A little easier to play Tampa at home, but going to Carolina will be hard.

And for the last two games...

Dallas is at Arizona, a much improved team that features a high-powered offense. The 'Boys play the Lions at home in Week 17. Maybe the division will be decided by then. If not, Dallas could definitely take it here (if Drew doesn't choke).

New York has to go to Seattle, the defending NFC-champions, during that rough stretch at the beginning of the season. They'll play Chicago at home in the middle of the season, and the Bears are average on the road.

Washington opens the season at home against Minnesota, who played just fine without Culpepper last year. And they'll take on the Rams in Week 16 in St. Louis.

The Eagles? At San Francisco in Week 3, which is easily the easiest road game of the bunch. Then they get the Packers in Week 4, and the Eagles just seem to have their number (Brett probably still shudders at fourth-and-26). These look like the easiest two games of them all.

In closing (I know, finally...)....

The Eagles got better by losing TO, gaining a healthy McNabb and Westbrook, drafting quality rookies, solidifying their D-Line, and adding depth to the O-Line. The same four stars are back in the secondary (remember, three of them went to the Pro Bowl in 04). The schedule is much easier than it was last year.

NFC East Division Champs? Maybe. Playoffs? Definitely.

Thanks for your time. I'll sit down now.
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