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League that starts 2 QB's anybody

Postby Wyatt » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:22 am

Was wondering if anybody plays in a league that starts 2 QB's each week? If so what size & how do you like it? pros / cons

I'm interested in trying one out. I think it would provide a greater challenge to manage & a somewhat different draft strategy.

If anybody has any openings I've got a post in the classifieds where I'm looking.

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Postby Knicks4ever » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:27 am

im in a dynasty leauge drafting now with 2 qbs. I like it, as it is a little different, its a 12 team leauge with DEEP benches. The one thing i would definatly try to do is to get 3 starting QB, so youll be good on bye weeks and if one of your QBs goes down.
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Postby logan » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:32 am

i played in one a year or two ago. it wasn't bad but wasn't really my cup of cafe (ha ha get it :-P ) but i can see why some do enjoy it.

only real probelm i came uopn was when one of my qb's got hurt. my backup was not all that great and when everyone in a 12 teamer comes close to drafting 3 qb's there ins't really anything left on the wire. i'd say if it's a twelve teamer and your #2 has any questions you would definitely want a decent #3 to fall back on for bye's and the possible inuury. also keeping an eye on the backup situations is definitely a good idea.
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Postby The Balanced Man » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:06 am

One of the best leagues I played in had a flex position where you could start ANY position.

6 point TD's across the board, -3 turnovers, and Reception points.

The scoring was very balanced between positions.

The strategies that developed, both the number of them and the strategies themselves, were stagering.

It made for a very interesting, strategic, and fun experience.
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Postby stomperrob » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:39 pm

I decided to try a 2 QB league this year - it's a 10 teamer, wouldn't want to go any bigger because of the bye weeks.
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Postby Wyatt » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:56 pm

Bye weeks does make it tough in a 2 QB league & with 12 tms it would be even tougher
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Postby ipljeff » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:06 am

Good Article on this topic.

Sorry to post the whole thing but it is a subscriber article and a link probably wouldn't work.

2 QB or Not 2 QB
Posted 7/27 by Jeff Pasquino, Exclusive to Footballguys.com

If you have been playing fantasy football for at least a few years you have seen how each position affects the performance of your team. You know how valuable starting running backs are in your league. Some leagues and owners that dislike the minimization of wide receivers implement a point per reception, or "PPR", rule to increase receiver values. Other leagues give bonuses to tight ends, such as two points for a catch or more points per yard, while others just drop the tight end requirement altogether. All those leagues seem to have the same shortcoming - a depressed value on the quarterback position.

So what is the answer? How do you bring the value of Pro Bowlers like Matt Hasselbeck and Tom Brady back to the top? Consider changing your starting lineup requirements by requiring every team to start two quarterbacks.

Are Two Heads Better Than One?

There will most assuredly be opposition to this change (unless you are starting from scratch). I have heard many of the arguments for and against making the switch.

The arguments for going to a "Start 2 QB" system begin with the idea that it accentuates the most important position in the NFL - starting quarterback. Why should 20-30 running backs be worth more than the overwhelming majority of NFL signal callers? Starting two quarterbacks brings the position back to its rightful status as a crucial element to your fantasy roster.

Another case for starting two quarterbacks is a comparison of the scarcity of starting quarterbacks and starting running backs. There are only 32 starters at each position, so why not have two starters from each? Proponents of this idea like to mention that over 50 quarterbacks started at least one game in 2005. That is a fair point; however on a given week in the NFL, the number of quarterbacks that played is usually equal to the number of teams in action. The names may change due to injury, but for the most part you know a few days in advance who will be calling plays in the huddle for every team in a given week.

The analogy of quarterbacks to running backs continues to fall apart under closer scrutiny. Running backs are often exchanged for one another during a given game, yet it is rare for an NFL quarterback to not finish a game aside from an injury replacement. You can get away with starting the second or third running back on a team for a week, knowing that he will get a few chances to give you at least a few points. That does not translate over to the quarterback as the QB stat line for most NFL games usually consists of one entry per team.

Opponents to switching to a two quarterback lineup mention that there are not enough starting quarterbacks in the NFL to go around, especially in leagues with 12 teams or more. With so few options, rostering any depth becomes rather difficult. Injuries and bye weeks create difficulties in fielding two starters each and every week. However, I believe that this adds to the challenge - can you handle all these issues and be competitive to win your league?

There is one more thing to consider when deciding on using two starting quarterbacks. If you want to have a league that emphasizes in-season trading, then this option is really for you. Redraft leagues that start one quarterback rarely see trades that include a quarterback. Even if a trade is brokered, sadly the low value of quarterback is put on display yet again as a solid NFL passer may be traded for a marginal talent at running back or wide receiver. The reason for this is that starting quarterbacks are often available on the waiver wire and in free agency. All of those conditions change dramatically in a league that doubles the number of quarterback starters.

Death, Taxes and....

Some quarterbacks just seem to be more durable than others. When you are starting two quarterbacks, it is a huge boost to your roster if you can find a capable starter that can be inserted into your lineup week after week without worrying if he will be available. The value of stalwart signal callers like Brett Favre and Peyton Manning are more than just their performances week after week - stabilizing your roster also adds value.

Two others that also fit this category of a permanent fixture under center are Tom Brady and Trent Green. Neither quarterback has missed a game in over four seasons. There is one more quarterback that fits this category, and it may surprise some people. Drew Bledsoe has also not missed a start since his 2001 injury, which led to Tom Brady's success in New England.

There are a number of other quarterbacks that are likely to start 16 games this season provided they are healthy. Some teams, however, are having a competition for the starter role or have young talent chomping at the bit to get under center in 2006. With so much turmoil at quarterback, we need to see just who would deserve to be selected in a two quarterback league draft.

Draftable QBs

With that in mind, it becomes very important to know the NFL quarterback depth charts, and who is worth of selecting on Draft Day. Here is my view on who is available and their viability for this year:

Arizona Cardinals - Kurt Warner, Matt Leinart
Atlanta Falcons - Michael Vick, Matt Schaub
Baltimore Ravens - Steve McNair, Kyle Boller
Buffalo Bills - Kelly Holcomb, J.P. Losman, Craig Nall
Carolina Panthers - Jake Delhomme, Chris Weinke
Chicago Bears - Rex Grossman, Brian Griese
Cincinnati Bengals - Carson Palmer Anthony Wright
Cleveland Browns - Charlie Frye, Ken Dorsey
Dallas Cowboys - Drew Bledsoe, Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler
Detroit Lions - Jon Kitna, Josh McCown
Green Bay Packers - Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers
Houston Texans - David Carr, Sage Rosenfels
Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning, Jim Sorgi
Jacksonville Jaguars - Byron Leftwich, David Garrard
Kansas City Chiefs - Trent Green, Brody Croyle
Miami Dolphins - Daunte Culpepper, Joey Harrington
Minnesota Vikings - Brad Johnson, Tarvaris Jackson
New England Patriots - Tom Brady, Matt Cassel
New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees, Jamie Martin
New York Giants - Eli Manning, Tim Hasselbeck
New York Jets - Chad Pennington, Patrick Ramsey, Kellen Clemens, Brooks Bollinger
Oakland Raiders - Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter
Philadelphia Eagles - Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia
Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger, Charlie Batch
San Diego Chargers - Philip Rivers, A.J. Feeley
San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith, Trent Dilfer
Seattle Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace
St. Louis Rams - Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Chris Simms, Jay Fiedler
Tennessee Titans - Billy Volek, Vince Young
Washington Redskins - Mark Brunell, Jason Campbell, Todd Collins
That's 29 quarterbacks that will likely be starters (BLUE), 16 more that are competing for playing time or likely to see action (GREEN), and another eight that are flyers that may see playing time in certain situations this year (BLACK). The quarterbacks in RED only have value if an injury should occur. I could see 50-55 of these names being drafted in a typical 12 team, 20 round redraft league employing two starting quarterbacks. That translates to all the quarterbacks in BLUE and GREEN above and a few of those in BLACK and RED.

Draft Day

I ran a mock draft for twelve teams using just the autodraft option, but that did not tell me very much beyond what I expected - that you cannot wait too long to select your quarterbacks. So I decided that I needed to do a more hands-on mock, pretending to be the owner of all 12 teams, and see if I could come up with competitive teams at each draft position.

Here are the results:

Rnd Team 1 Team 2 Team 3 Team 4
1 Larry Johnson LaDainian Tomlinson Shaun Alexander Tiki Barber
2 Marvin Harrison Larry Fitzgerald Kevin Jones Torry Holt
3 Willis McGahee Randy Moss Anquan Boldin Julius Jones
4 T.J. Houshmandzadeh Donovan McNabb Matt Hasselbeck Santana Moss
5 Jeremy Shockey Tony Gonzalez Todd Heap Alge Crumpler
6 Drew Bledsoe Chris Brown Curtis Martin Thomas Jones
7 Terry Glenn Rod Smith Lee Evans Michael Vick
8 Byron Leftwich Drew Brees Kurt Warner Keyshawn Johnson
9 DeAngelo Williams Joe Horn Keenan McCardell Marion Barber III
10 Laurence Maroney LenDale White Kevin Curtis Billy Volek
11 Chris Simms Brad Johnson Charlie Frye Samie Parker
12 Michael Clayton Greg Jones Matt Leinart Michael Jenkins
13 Indianapolis Colts Ryan Moats Jerramy Stevens Matt Schaub
14 Jermaine Wiggins Zach Hilton Reggie Williams Vince Young
15 David Garrard Michael Turner Maurice Morris Cedric Houston
16 Travis Taylor Cedrick Wilson Mike Alstott Neil Rackers
17 Brandon Stokley David Akers Josh Brown Alex Smith
18 Jeff Wilkins New York Giants Seattle Seahawks Jacksonville Jaguars
19 Dee Brown Atlanta Falcons Washington Redskins San Diego Chargers
20 Jay Fiedler Santonio Holmes Seneca Wallace Kellen Clemens

Rnd Team 5 Team 6 Team 7 Team 8
1 Clinton Portis Steven Jackson LaMont Jordan Rudi Johnson
2 Domanick Davis Reuben Droughns Willie Parker Antonio Gates
3 Hines Ward Chris Chambers Warrick Dunn Chester Taylor
4 Reggie Wayne Corey Dillon Roy Williams Plaxico Burress
5 Derrick Mason Deion Branch Javon Walker Joseph Addai
6 Dominic Rhodes Cedric Benson Aaron Brooks Eli Manning
7 Jason Witten Laveranues Coles Ben Watson Muhsin Muhammad
8 Ben Roethlisberger Daunte Culpepper Jake Plummer Koren Robinson
9 Pittsburgh Steelers Carolina Panthers Jerry Porter Philip Rivers
10 Mark Brunell Steve McNair Drew Bennett Chris Perry
11 Brandon Lloyd Mark Clayton Alex Smith Chad Pennington
12 Mewelde Moore Randy McMichael Duce Staley Roddy White
13 J.P. Losman Joey Harrington Jason Elam Patrick Ramsey
14 Ladell Betts Kyle Boller Vernon Davis Brandon Jacobs
15 Eric Moulds Nate Burleson Marty Booker Amani Toomer
16 Verron Haynes Jay Feely Andrew Walter Miami Dolphins
17 Jason Campbell Matt Stover Chad Jackson John Kasay
18 Mike Vanderjagt Tony Fisher Brian Calhoun Jeb Putzier
19 Green Bay Packers Wes Welker Justin Fargas Reche Caldwell
20 Craig Nall Bubba Franks Dallas Cowboys Philadelphia Eagles

Rnd Team 9 Team 10 Team 11 Team 12
1 Peyton Manning Ronnie Brown Cadillac Williams Chad Johnson
2 Terrell Owens Edgerrin James Steve Smith Brian Westbrook
3 DeShaun Foster Donald Driver Reggie Bush Tatum Bell
4 Ron Dayne Tom Brady Darrell Jackson Jamal Lewis
5 Andre Johnson Fred Taylor Frank Gore Eddie Kennison
6 Ahman Green Joey Galloway Deuce McAllister Carson Palmer
7 Chris Cooley Matt Jones Donte' Stallworth Reggie Brown
8 Jake Delhomme Marc Bulger Brett Favre Trent Green
9 Ernest Wilford Antonio Bryant Joe Jurevicius L.J. Smith
10 David Carr Kellen Winslow Jr Jon Kitna Mike Anderson
11 Samkon Gado Isaac Bruce Rex Grossman Kelly Holcomb
12 Adam Vinatieri Chicago Bears Kevan Barlow David Givens
13 Justin McCareins Shayne Graham Josh McCown Brian Griese
14 Dallas Clark Heath Miller Ben Troupe T.J. Duckett
15 Bobby Engram Gus Frerotte Michael Pittman Eric Parker
16 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Kevin Faulk Robert Ferguson Baltimore Ravens
17 Antowain Smith J.J. Arrington Arizona Cardinals Andre' Davis
18 Antwaan Randle El Matt Cassel Jeff Reed Lawrence Tynes
19 Tennessee Titans Maurice Drew Marcus Pollard Josh Scobee
20 Arnaz Battle Corey Bradford Nate Kaeding Anthony Wright

Looking over the teams, I noticed:

51 QBs were taken, with every team taking 3, 4, or 5
Teams taking a quarterback in the first four rounds (Teams 2, 3 and 10) were able to get their QB2 in Round 8
Rounds 8-11 seemed quite popular from a value standpoint for a QB2 and QB3 run
Handcuffs were not that difficult to secure
Bye weeks are a definite factor
Being one of the first teams with 3 QBs was advantageous - Team 9 had Peyton Manning, Delhomme and Carr, for example
From Round 13 onward, 16 of 19 quarterbacks were handcuffs for their respective owners
Putting Our Two Heads Together

Some lessons learned from the mock draft:

It is OK to wait on picking your first quarterback, but be one of the first to get your second and third QB
With 51 QBs selected, teams taking 5 quarterbacks are at a disadvantage. Depth on your roster may suffer at other positions if you have to use 25% of your team for QB. While quarterbacks will likely score a good number of points for your team, the issues of depth at running back and wide receiver may present themselves later in the year.
Rounds 8 through 11 seemed quite popular from a value standpoint for a QB2 and QB3 run. Twenty-three of 48 picks in these rounds, nearly half, were quarterbacks. This validates the value of picking up your second and third quarterback earlier than other owners.
While handcuffs were reasonably easy to secure (Kitna/McCown in Rounds 10 and 11 for example), there is a downside. If you take two QBs that need to be backed up in the draft, you will suffer for a QB3. Take a look at Team 6 - while Baltimore and Miami quarterbacks were locked down, not much else was available. Granted the bye weeks are later in the season, but something has to be done on the waiver wire to cover this problem.
Selection of two solid starters early with later bye weeks allows for a team to build depth at other positions and wait on a midseason injury replacement to cover bye weeks. Team 2 employed this strategy and also secured a solid QB3.

Now your draft is over, you have some good quarterback starters, and there are some teams that have issues in your league at the position. These teams will be hungry all year for improving their team if they are to have a chance to compete. Be sure that your commissioner has set up your league for these owners to get back into the mix by implementing these supporting rules.

Trades - These have to be permitted and encouraged. Any rules that might stifle trade activities have to be looked over and possibly scrapped. Quarterbacks now have much more value, and trading for QBs will promote trades amongst all the other positions. Consider this an added benefit of starting two quarterbacks, as your owners should now be far more active during the season
Roster Depth - This should be done BEFORE the draft, but at the very least you need to allow for additional player room. As shown by the mock draft above, having 4-5 QBs on a roster is not that uncommon, so adding 1-2 more roster slots would be warranted
Waiver Wire - This is a critical step. Every owner will be after the next second-string quarterback that will be thrust into a starting job when the starter goes down with an injury (just like a starting running back). Determining how to claim players in a reasonable fashion such as blind bidding or a closed market until Tuesday or Wednesday would be prudent maneuvers.
I hope that many of you consider the positives of running or joining two quarterback leagues. They are a lot of fun to play in, and I make a point of joining at least one per year. The strategy and entertainment value alone are worth the effort to find one, and I encourage everyone to try this alternative league style.
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