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How many times have we heard it before?

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Re: How many times have we heard it before?

Postby citybirds27 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:57 pm

johnpax wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:ive heard that Len Pasquarelli from ESPN has said that michael vick is poised for a huge year...

if i had a quarter for the number of people have said that, my teeth would be rotted from all the gumballs i would buy. seriously, when are these guys gonna figure out that vick might not have it made in the NFL? :-?


have it made in the nfl. hahahaha

Yeah Rich Mckay is the biggest moron in the NFL, giving a questionable starting QB 110 million. It's so obvious he hasn't made it yet.

ahahaha

You're a FF nerd. You can't get away from the stats. Which is funny, because stats actually back up Vick. The guy W-I-N-S. You know, those things called G-A-M-E-S.

you think any falcons fans care about him throwing for 3500 yards? hell no. go list me the top 10 problems with the falcons. vick isn't on the list.

the D can't stop the run. game over. the D has killed the falcons. Vicks offense puts up points. No one worries about that. It's the defense that's the problem. they're small, they get worn down, and they cant stop the rush.

and as for Vicks passing. The falcons are partly to blame. Wonder why Vick had his best year as a starter his first year? Reeves had tons of experience with Elway, and was bringing Vick along perfectly. He was playing to his strength, vertical passing. Then he gets fired, and we get this WCO offense junk. Incase you haven't noticed, a 5 yard out throw isn't vicks strength. there's no room for the WR to adjust. When you use his arm strength, the WR can adjust to the ball.

Also notice how white/jenkins are stretch the filed/vertical WRs. pretty bad fit for the WCO huh? even knapp said he tried to force vick in the pocket too much. vick is on his 3rd qb coach. 2nd offense. 2 WRs who wouldn't start for 90% of the nfl. oline that sucks at pass blocking.

knapp didn't get the job because he was a good fit for vick. he was mora's buddy. all he knows is wco, so they installed that. its a horrible mismatch for vicks skill set.

ever wonder why plummer rolls out more then vick? go watch plummer play. they move him out of the pocket all the time. you'd think with a more mobile qb, they'd do more of that? wrong. knapp admitted his mistake in the usa today article last week.

funny how vick has won playoffs games, gone to nfl title games, throws for a higher % then eli manning, but vick is still t he problem. you realize delhomme threw 15 for 35 and 3 ints in the playoff loss? no one seems to care about delhomme leading the panthers to a superbowl.

vick is not the problem. no one wants him to throw for 4000 yards. no one cares if he throws for 60% (which mcnabb has done once, only when he had TO, funny how good wrs help a qb). only ff nerds worry about vicks passing stats. no one in the real world worry. vicks offense will score points. he can score enough to get them to the nfc title game. he will score enough this year.

wonder why the falcons have 3 new secondary starters? brought in new dline? the d was garbage. falcon d made gado look like walter payton.

and i love your "never threw for 3000 yards". are you dumb? in his first year as a starter he threw for 2936 yards. then they fired reeves, put in a new offense, new oc, new qb coach, and he's never been the same since. and the never thrown for 16 tds. wow he's throw for 15. lol nice stats buddy. good job findind his career highs, and taking one off. rofl. you didn't mention his winning percentage? how about the falcons are 3-13 without him. funny how falcons were 2-10, he comes back, he single handedly beats the panthers (who go to the sb that year) and goes 3-1. funny how a team can be 2-10 without and 3-1 with (beating the nfc champ). weird huh?

and you should tell steve young running backs are for running. oh and john elway. good arguments. lol. stick to ff nerd. don't ever talk about real football again.



No offense to steelersfan513, but great post. ;-D
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Re: How many times have we heard it before?

Postby bklik » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:04 pm

citybirds27 wrote:
johnpax wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:ive heard that Len Pasquarelli from ESPN has said that michael vick is poised for a huge year...

if i had a quarter for the number of people have said that, my teeth would be rotted from all the gumballs i would buy. seriously, when are these guys gonna figure out that vick might not have it made in the NFL? :-?


have it made in the nfl. hahahaha

Yeah Rich Mckay is the biggest moron in the NFL, giving a questionable starting QB 110 million. It's so obvious he hasn't made it yet.

ahahaha

You're a FF nerd. You can't get away from the stats. Which is funny, because stats actually back up Vick. The guy W-I-N-S. You know, those things called G-A-M-E-S.

you think any falcons fans care about him throwing for 3500 yards? hell no. go list me the top 10 problems with the falcons. vick isn't on the list.

the D can't stop the run. game over. the D has killed the falcons. Vicks offense puts up points. No one worries about that. It's the defense that's the problem. they're small, they get worn down, and they cant stop the rush.

and as for Vicks passing. The falcons are partly to blame. Wonder why Vick had his best year as a starter his first year? Reeves had tons of experience with Elway, and was bringing Vick along perfectly. He was playing to his strength, vertical passing. Then he gets fired, and we get this WCO offense junk. Incase you haven't noticed, a 5 yard out throw isn't vicks strength. there's no room for the WR to adjust. When you use his arm strength, the WR can adjust to the ball.

Also notice how white/jenkins are stretch the filed/verticalyoffs games, gone to nfl title games, throws for a higher % then eli manning, but vick is still t he problem. you realize delhomme threw 15 for 35 and 3 ints in the playoff loss? no one seems to care about delhomme leading the panthers to a superbowl.

vick is not the problem. no one wants him to throw for 4000 yards. no one cares if he throws for 60% (which mcnabb has done once, only when he had TO, funny how good wrs help a qb). only ff nerds worry about vicks passing stats. no one in the real world worry. vicks offense will score points. he can score enough to get them to the nfc title game. he will score enough this year.

wonder why the falcons have 3 new secondary starters? brought in new dline? the d was garbage. falcon d made gado look like walter payton.

and i love your "never threw for 3000 yards". are you dumb? in his first year as a starter he threw for 2936 yards. then they fired reeves, put in a new offense, new oc, new qb coach, and he's never been the same since. and the never thrown for 16 tds. wow he's throw for 15. lol nice stats buddy. good job findind his career highs, and taking one off. rofl. you didn't mention his winning percentage? how about the falcons are 3-13 without him. funny how falcons were 2-10, he comes back, he single handedly beats the panthers (who go to the sb that year) and goes 3-1. funny how a team can be 2-10 without and 3-1 with (beating the nfc champ). weird huh?

and you should tell steve young running backs are for running. oh and john elway. good arguments. lol. stick to ff nerd. don't ever talk about real football again.



No offense to steelersfan513, but great post. ;-D


Yeah, maybe a good post except for all the personal attacks. And the thing about throwing %ages.
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Re: How many times have we heard it before?

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:14 pm

bklik wrote:
citybirds27 wrote:
johnpax wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:ive heard that Len Pasquarelli from ESPN has said that michael vick is poised for a huge year...

if i had a quarter for the number of people have said that, my teeth would be rotted from all the gumballs i would buy. seriously, when are these guys gonna figure out that vick might not have it made in the NFL? :-?


have it made in the nfl. hahahaha

Yeah Rich Mckay is the biggest moron in the NFL, giving a questionable starting QB 110 million. It's so obvious he hasn't made it yet.

ahahaha

You're a FF nerd. You can't get away from the stats. Which is funny, because stats actually back up Vick. The guy W-I-N-S. You know, those things called G-A-M-E-S.

you think any falcons fans care about him throwing for 3500 yards? hell no. go list me the top 10 problems with the falcons. vick isn't on the list.

the D can't stop the run. game over. the D has killed the falcons. Vicks offense puts up points. No one worries about that. It's the defense that's the problem. they're small, they get worn down, and they cant stop the rush.

and as for Vicks passing. The falcons are partly to blame. Wonder why Vick had his best year as a starter his first year? Reeves had tons of experience with Elway, and was bringing Vick along perfectly. He was playing to his strength, vertical passing. Then he gets fired, and we get this WCO offense junk. Incase you haven't noticed, a 5 yard out throw isn't vicks strength. there's no room for the WR to adjust. When you use his arm strength, the WR can adjust to the ball.

Also notice how white/jenkins are stretch the filed/verticalyoffs games, gone to nfl title games, throws for a higher % then eli manning, but vick is still t he problem. you realize delhomme threw 15 for 35 and 3 ints in the playoff loss? no one seems to care about delhomme leading the panthers to a superbowl.

vick is not the problem. no one wants him to throw for 4000 yards. no one cares if he throws for 60% (which mcnabb has done once, only when he had TO, funny how good wrs help a qb). only ff nerds worry about vicks passing stats. no one in the real world worry. vicks offense will score points. he can score enough to get them to the nfc title game. he will score enough this year.

wonder why the falcons have 3 new secondary starters? brought in new dline? the d was garbage. falcon d made gado look like walter payton.

and i love your "never threw for 3000 yards". are you dumb? in his first year as a starter he threw for 2936 yards. then they fired reeves, put in a new offense, new oc, new qb coach, and he's never been the same since. and the never thrown for 16 tds. wow he's throw for 15. lol nice stats buddy. good job findind his career highs, and taking one off. rofl. you didn't mention his winning percentage? how about the falcons are 3-13 without him. funny how falcons were 2-10, he comes back, he single handedly beats the panthers (who go to the sb that year) and goes 3-1. funny how a team can be 2-10 without and 3-1 with (beating the nfc champ). weird huh?

and you should tell steve young running backs are for running. oh and john elway. good arguments. lol. stick to ff nerd. don't ever talk about real football again.



No offense to steelersfan513, but great post. ;-D


Yeah, maybe a good post except for all the personal attacks. And the thing about throwing %ages.


that was a pretty good post, but youre not gonna earn anyone's respect here by insulting them. ive overreacted to this stuff in the past, so thats all im gonna say.

and btw, he has thrown for 16 TDs; i said he hasnt thrown for more than that.
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Postby Kensat30 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:26 pm

Steve Young was the guy who said it takes 3 years to develop in the WCO. This is year 3 in the WCO offense for Vick. I think he is indeed in for a meaningful increase in passing stats. Similar to the 3rd year wideout breakout theory..

I think Vick presents value ala Aaron Brooks in years 2002-2005. The guy is going as a QB#2 because everyone is finally realizing the massive hype that went into making Vick a top5 fantasy QB pick for several years in a row. But at this point, everyone overrates the low passing stats and inconsistency factor and at the same time, underrates the point output compared to his peers. If you owned Vick last year, and were a smart owner who benched his ass against his two toughest matchups late in the year (@Carolina and @Chicago), you had a borderline top5 QB for the entire year. Vick ranked as QB#8 in ppg last year...

So why is Vick going as QB#12+ this year? The guy has ranked as top3 FANTASY QB in the past unlike a slew of other QBs ranked ahead of him, and there is no reason why he can't rank that high again. The guy has the capability of outscoring every other QB out there in any given week, with his rushing stats alone! Not to mention that he is picking up the equivalent of 100 passing yards a game over his peer using his legs week in and week out. Who care if he throws for 3,000 and 60% from a fantasy perspective.

IF you factor in the passing stats and figure for an increase, that is where you are gonna see the major value this year IMO. With Jenkins and White both having experience in the system now, and Alge Crumple as one of the premier TEs in the league, Dunn a solid pass catching RB, Vick has the weapons around him to make some noise.


Look at Steve Young's early career. I know the data is limited because he wasn't starting 16 games year in and year out, but look at the results.

| 1985 tam | 5 | 72 138 52.2 935 6.8 3 8 | 40 233 1 |
| 1986 tam | 14 | 195 363 53.7 2282 6.3 8 13 | 74 425 5 |
| 1987 sfo | 8 | 37 69 53.6 570 8.3 10 0 | 26 190 1 |
| 1988 sfo | 11 | 54 101 53.5 680 6.7 3 3 | 27 184 1 |
| 1989 sfo | 10 | 64 92 69.6 1001 10.9 8 3 | 38 126 2


He was a sub 55% passer in Tampa and his first two years in SF. Primarily known for his running and not his passing. Yet suddenly, in year 3 of the WCO his completion percentage jumps by more than 15% over his career average? His YPA skyrockets? 11 seasons and a hall of fame career later was the first time his completion % dipped back below 60%.

3 years in the WCO..Coincidence? Or Vick = sleeper?
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