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Postby J_rob_the_ Baller » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:31 pm

drhanl wrote:i'm not even part of the lawsuit rob, i don't care if it is ridiculous or not. but to say, it is somebody trying to screw somebody else, you again are missing the point that these companies have profited 1.5 billion in the past year. And, the lawsuit is trying to screw them? yeah, i don't think so.

J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:yeah, when you use the leagues that you have to pay for on those sites, you are paying for the extra features that dont exist in the free leagues. Just like people who pay to use websites like myfantasyleague.com

You are paying money to be able to access the site, use the features, and have all the benifits of a league site you paid for like live scoring and such. The money they keep is the money that goes to pay for the website and features that you are using. That 40% is not money that they are taking from the pot, its money that they charge users to be able to use their site.

I stand by my statement that this is a ridiculous lawsuit, just some jackoffs trying to make a buck by screwing over someone else.



HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
This is america, profit is what its all about. If they didnt make a profit off those sites, then the wouldnt exist. You think that when you pay $40 a month for internet service someone isnt makeing a profit off of it? How about when you go buy a gallon of milk, you think someone is making a profit off of it?

You bet your ass they are. If not for profit, half of the crap most people take for granted wouldnt exist. Everything that has been invented all throughout history was created with 2 motives. 1 is for whatever convinience that product provides. the 2nd reason is because someone thought to themselves, hey, i bet i can sell this and make money off of it. If not for that, the person would have just created whatever it was and not made any more.

The same thing applies here. When ESPN has a website for fantasy football, it doesnt just magically appear. They have to hire programmers, and web designers, and all sorts of other stuff, plus the advertising costs, etc. You think they would go to all that trouble if they werent going to make a profit off of it? Hell no they wouldnt.

Alot of us pay good money for fantasy sites that have NO PAYOUT at all, The cost is just to use the site. Why do we do that? because those sites offer features that the free ones dont. We are paying for a product, not gambleing on ESPN.

Fantasy Football sites are not sites that everyone is entitles to have access to. Its a privledge that someone went out of their way to create a website that allows us to do fantasy football online. If that person wants to make a profit off it, so what. Because if not for the profit, that site probably wouldnt exist.

so stop your crying
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Postby HskrPwr13 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:35 pm

drhanl wrote:and, i suppose you think that your little league is the only option that sportsline has? no. they have many types of pay to play leagues. in these leagues people pay entry fees, which pays for prizes, "site maintenance", etc. the point is, when they pay some money out, and keep a fee it is gambling. it doesn't bother me, i do it, will continue to play, like it, love it, lose some, win some. the point of this thread was to find players from the above mentioned states, because by law, they are entitled to some of that money back. and this lawyer friend needs plaintiffs in order to settle out of court.

HskrPwr13 wrote:Theres no issue here. My league pays $150 to sporstline to host the league. Theres no payout above what we owners put into on the side. If this site actually gives you money back for winning the league, then thats probably a better deal than most sites, depending on what they're charging to host.


Relax, newby. No one is going after you. :-t Look again at your first post. Specifically, your final paragraph. You may have started out presenting this an fyi, but degraded into mentioning YOUR "involvement" with a lawyer and "hammering" these sites. If you dont agree with the feedback, fine. If you feel your being unjustly "attacked" then change your verbiage.
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Postby drhanl » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:46 pm

No offense dude, but you are an idiot. i am reading your replies and I agree with about 95% of what you are saying. But, evidentally you are not reading my replies because you don't understand that I am agreeing with you on 95% of what you say.

The difference in our opinion, is that I say, playing a fantasy league that has prizes is a game of chance, that makes it gambling. You obviously disagree. There is a big difference in me buying milk and the milkman making profit and me giving money into a pot and a website making profit. One is legal, the other, really isn't. But, because we all love fantasy football, myself included, nothing is done about it. But, it is gambling, like it or not.

I AM NOT CRYING!!!!!!! this has nothing to do with me!!!!!!!!!! This is why i call you an idiot, because you are not reading what I am writing!!!!!!! I don't care if ESPN makes a lot of money. I don't care if the milkman makes a lot of money. I don't care if a lawyer makes a lot of money because he knows the law. So, I told this guy I would try to help him find some plaintiffs. So, i started a thread.




HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
This is america, profit is what its all about. If they didnt make a profit off those sites, then the wouldnt exist. You think that when you pay $40 a month for internet service someone isnt makeing a profit off of it? How about when you go buy a gallon of milk, you think someone is making a profit off of it?

You bet your ass they are. If not for profit, half of the crap most people take for granted wouldnt exist. Everything that has been invented all throughout history was created with 2 motives. 1 is for whatever convinience that product provides. the 2nd reason is because someone thought to themselves, hey, i bet i can sell this and make money off of it. If not for that, the person would have just created whatever it was and not made any more.

The same thing applies here. When ESPN has a website for fantasy football, it doesnt just magically appear. They have to hire programmers, and web designers, and all sorts of other stuff, plus the advertising costs, etc. You think they would go to all that trouble if they werent going to make a profit off of it? Hell no they wouldnt.

Alot of us pay good money for fantasy sites that have NO PAYOUT at all, The cost is just to use the site. Why do we do that? because those sites offer features that the free ones dont. We are paying for a product, not gambleing on ESPN.

Fantasy Football sites are not sites that everyone is entitles to have access to. Its a privledge that someone went out of their way to create a website that allows us to do fantasy football online. If that person wants to make a profit off it, so what. Because if not for the profit, that site probably wouldnt exist.

so stop your crying[/quote]
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Postby J_rob_the_ Baller » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:53 pm

The difference in our opinion, is that I say, playing a fantasy league that has prizes is a game of chance, that makes it gambling.


Yes, if there are prizes, it could be considered gambleing. BUT, you have to figure that it is a form of gambling combined with a pay website. So, part of your money goes towards paying for the website, and the rest goes into the prize pool. If it all went into the prize pool, then it would be a free website, not a pay website.

GET IT? does that make sense? Just because you are putting money into a prize pool doesnt mean you get to avoid paying for the website. Maybe it would be easier if the websites made you pay 2 times, once for the website, and then an additional amount that goes into the prize pool.

There are still website costs that you as the consumer are paying for, whether the league pays out or not.
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Postby stomperrob » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:45 pm

I'd rather see the sites getting the money than some lawyer filling his pockets with his large contingency fee!!! Not to mention some sites might no longer offer their services if he was successful.
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Postby J_rob_the_ Baller » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:50 pm

stomperrob wrote:I'd rather see the sites getting the money than some lawyer filling his pockets with his large contingency fee!!! Not to mention some sites might no longer offer their services if he was successful.


exactly. This is the wrong place to come looking for people who want to HURT the fantasy websites.

Just one of the hundreds of stupid ideas lawyers come up with to make themselves richer. I am sure the guy who started this thread was doing it out of the goodness of his heart to, to help his lawyer friend. I bet there was nothing in it for him at all. (insert sarcasm)
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Postby drhanl » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:57 pm

actually, what was in it for me, rob, was answers to my law questions regarding starting my own site. he was very helpful to answer my questions for no charge, and in return, i told him i would ask around a forum to see if anyone would like to join this suit.

i apologize for the use of the phrase, hammering. as husker pointed out, that was probably not the right phrase. just thought it might help with interest. this law suit has nothing to do with hurting anyone. there is just a gambling loss reclimation law that people are capable of taking advantage of.
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Postby ampant » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:48 pm

drhanl wrote: Let me say again. 1.5 billion dollars!

site maintenance fee? or rich people getting richer?

absolutely they are entitled to a site maintenance fee. what got me interested in this whole subject was wanting to start my own site. seems like everyone else is making money, why not me. But, if fantasy sports are games of chance, they are gambling, and regardless of the "fee" you are entitled to get some of it back.


Am I missing something? What the hell are you talking about? So if I go to Vegas and put down $100 on the roulette table and lose, I should get half of it back? Are you saying that gambling is illegal? Because it isn't.

Are you saying that people who sign up for FF sites knowing/agreeing to the terms ahead of time are getting cheated somehow? You are nuts.

It seem the only issue here is that you think the site is keeping too much of the winnings. But legally there isn't a distinction between keeping 40% and 10% of the total buy-in. You just disagree about the percentages. But if people know what the terms are ahead of time and agree to them, tough cookies.

As far as you "having nothing to do with this," you are the one who told us you were involved with a lawyer trying to find plaintiffs (*cough* chasing ambulances).

By the way, if your lawyer friend wins, I assume he'll make 30-40% of the winnings. Seems to me he's the greater of two evils. The websites make money off of an agreement which is understood by all parties involved. Your lawyer is just chasing people down who lost money according to their own terms, and trying to make a quick buck off their bad decision-making by convincing them that they bear no personal responsibility for their actions.

drhanl wrote:The difference in our opinion, is that I say, playing a fantasy league that has prizes is a game of chance, that makes it gambling. You obviously disagree. There is a big difference in me buying milk and the milkman making profit and me giving money into a pot and a website making profit.
What the hell are you trying to say? If you want to make an argument, please learn how to use correct grammar, and to write more clearly.
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Postby onnestabe » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:10 pm

I feel an ampant bet coming on here....
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Postby drhanl » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:23 pm

amp,

of course gambling isn't illegal in vegas. Was Nevada on the list that I mentioned? Can you go to a casino in Georgia? Are you implying gambling is legal in Georgia? I'm not saying anyone is getting cheated. I'm saying, by law, people from these states can recover money lost gambling.

the percentages that the site is keeping is irrelevant, if you will kindly read above.

My lawyer friend is trying to stop illegal online gaming, actually. And, if he wins a couple hundred million in the process, i suppose he becomes evil. But, if you have a couple hundred million, who cares who thinks you are evil. if you ask me.


Am I missing something? What the hell are you talking about? So if I go to Vegas and put down $100 on the roulette table and lose, I should get half of it back? Are you saying that gambling is illegal? Because it isn't.

Are you saying that people who sign up for FF sites knowing/agreeing to the terms ahead of time are getting cheated somehow? You are nuts.

It seem the only issue here is that you think the site is keeping too much of the winnings. But legally there isn't a distinction between keeping 40% and 10% of the total buy-in. You just disagree about the percentages. But if people know what the terms are ahead of time and agree to them, tough cookies.

As far as you "having nothing to do with this," you are the one who told us you were involved with a lawyer trying to find plaintiffs (*cough* chasing ambulances).

By the way, if your lawyer friend wins, I assume he'll make 30-40% of the winnings. Seems to me he's the greater of two evils. The websites make money off of an agreement which is understood by all parties involved. Your lawyer is just chasing people down who lost money according to their own terms, and trying to make a quick buck off their bad decision-making by convincing them that they bear no personal responsibility for their actions.

drhanl wrote:The difference in our opinion, is that I say, playing a fantasy league that has prizes is a game of chance, that makes it gambling. You obviously disagree. There is a big difference in me buying milk and the milkman making profit and me giving money into a pot and a website making profit.
What the hell are you trying to say? If you want to make an argument, please learn how to use correct grammar, and to write more clearly.[/quote]
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