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Need some serious help to settle a dispute in my keeper

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Postby stepsinsc » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:32 pm

latraffic wrote:I agree with the overall consensus - go with the snake draft format. It's the normal convention in FFB and if the two new managers are any good, they can use it to their advantage by making the most of the back-to-back drafting you get by being on the ends of a snake draft. Most important though, don't let something like what kind of draft type to use ruin your whole league. My rec - give in to the majority and enjoy the season.


The thing is, it's not the majority. It's pretty evenly split. There are other owners other than the new 2 who think it should be straight draft, although they don't care as much b/c their teams arn't that bad. I agree that typically it should snake, but these 2 new owners are just so screwed for this next year...I'm tempted to call a compromise and just say 6 and 6.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:39 pm

It doesn't really matter that much since you're already taking the top 48 players out, but I'd say not snaking for rounds 1-3 and then beginning the 4th round with the last pick in the previous rounds and then snaking from there would be a fine compromise.
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Postby BeefSandwiches » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:40 pm

stepsinsc wrote:The thing is, it's not the majority. It's pretty evenly split.


Let me guess...Picks 1-6 want it straight and Picks 7-12 want a snake?? ;-7 ;-7

You should do a snake draft for the whole thing. I see why you want to help out the teams who are disadvantaged with keepers, but that's why they are given the early picks of the draft. Straight drafting isn't fair to the guys at the bottom of the draft no matter how stronger their keepers are.
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Postby AcesFull » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:47 pm

I would say snake draft all the way. Anyone that is any good at fantasy football can put together a good team from any draft pick in a snake draft.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:52 pm

AcesFull wrote:I would say snake draft all the way. Anyone that is any good at fantasy football can put together a good team from any draft pick in a snake draft.


Unless everyone else starts out with way better keepers.
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Re: Need some serious help to settle a dispute in my keeper

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:28 pm

Do a snake draft. You obviously don't understand the implications of a non-snaking draft. If I was an owner picking at the end I would be pissed too.

And to hear your "compromise" saying that you could go straight for 6 and then snake for 6.. wow. Are you serious? Yeah let's make the draft fair in the 10th f-in round after the draft has been picked clean. All the "crappy" teams are sufficiently loaded up, time to go back to a normal draft! By the time the 10th round (7th + keepers) rolls around it is mostly sleeper picks anyways and the damage will have already been done in the earlier rounds.

If you wanna take your league and play bumper bowling with the kiddies and give the "crappy" teams a better chance to play catchup, go straight draft for the first TWO rounds and give them back to back picks before the Champs. That should be more than enough to get them back on their feet.

If they want more of an advantage than that, ask if they want training wheels installed on their fantasy team. Maybe ask them if they would like to exchange their kicker and defense for an extra QB and a RB instead. What is the point of having a keeper league if the owners are too weak to compete and need to have their hands held every year? Might as well switch to a redraft to give the poor owners an actual chance of winning on the blind luck factor.
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Re: Need some serious help to settle a dispute in my keeper

Postby Matthias » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:45 pm

Kensat30 wrote:Do a snake draft. You obviously don't understand the implications of a non-snaking draft. If I was an owner picking at the end I would be pissed too.


I respectfully disagree.

The idea of a snake draft is premised upon equaling value across the draft.

In a keeper, you already have unequal value as a starting point. So if you want to create some parity then having a level-opportunity draft does not further your cause but merely perpetuates the already inherent inequality. Think of it this way: in a league with five keepers it's very possible that a top team could have 3 of the top 12 players. Is that "fair" to someone joining the league? That the other team got three first round picks? No. It's not fair. And the draft is set up to address the inequality from the starting point so it's not necessary to be fair in and of itself. This is why all of the real sports leagues have non-snaked drafts. They're not looking to keep the draft as a value-neutral tool. They're looking to use it as a means for team promotion and leveling. In a redraft league, sure. Snake it. But in a keeper league, no. At least a few rounds of non-snaked make good, solid sense.

Also, for what it's worth, the magnitude of difference in non-snaking a draft is much less in a keeper league versus a non-keeper because most of the differential in value is in the early rounds. I.e. there's a large difference in value between pick #1 and pick #10 but between pick #51 and pick #60 or pick #81 and pick #90 it's not so great. So it might be annoying but it's not really that big of a deal.

Incidentally, I'm in a keeper league with my brother where I wonder why the other guys even bother to show up. In a 10-team league we have for keepers: TO, Holt, Fitz, Gates, Rudi, and Lamont (got him after trading away Priest beginning of last year). Most years our six keepers are all top 25 or 30. Does it matter if the draft is snaked or not? No. We can pick up a flex player, random defense, random quarterback, and still roll over everyone else. And we don't begrudge the league for not snaking the first few rounds of the draft, which the commissioner has done the past couple of years.
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Postby fightinfitz_08 » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:21 pm

my advice is to go nfl style for the first 3-4 rds and then snake draft the rest.
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Postby Heimholder » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:11 pm

What about a supplemental draft - the new teams each get 1 free pick before the draft even starts. Then they get placed at spots 1-2 for the full snaked draft. They just wouldn't draft in the final round.

The newbies should be happy, each getting 2 of the top 4 available players. The other owners should be happy, the entire draft is fair except for those 2 free picks - big deal.
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Re: Need some serious help to settle a dispute in my keeper

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:02 pm

Matthias wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:Do a snake draft. You obviously don't understand the implications of a non-snaking draft. If I was an owner picking at the end I would be pissed too.


I respectfully disagree.

The idea of a snake draft is premised upon equaling value across the draft.

In a keeper, you already have unequal value as a starting point.


Simple question, who says the champion of the league has the best keepers and the last place finisher has the worst keepers. Chances are THEY DON'T.

So if you want to create some parity then having a level-opportunity draft does not further your cause but merely perpetuates the already inherent inequality.


Or maybe it's just an opportunity for the teams who happened to do crappy last year to gain a huge advantage over the teams that did well last year? I know in my leagues sometimes 1 win can seperate about 6 rankings in the standing. Now answer this: how much better is the #3 pick in this system versus the #9 pick.

Think of it this way: in a league with five keepers it's very possible that a top team could have 3 of the top 12 players. Is that "fair" to someone joining the league?


It's very possible that the 2nd to top team has ZERO of the top12 players, yet he would pick 11th. Is that fair to him just because he did well last year?


No. It's not fair.


WAH. If you can't field a decent team in a measly 3 keeper league without stacking the deck hugely in your favor, then you must resemble the NYGiant fan guy on the NFL Network commercials.

Also, for what it's worth, the magnitude of difference in non-snaking a draft is much less in a keeper league versus a non-keeper because most of the differential in value is in the early rounds. I.e. there's a large difference in value between pick #1 and pick #10 but between pick #51 and pick #60 or pick #81 and pick #90 it's not so great. So it might be annoying but it's not really that big of a deal.


Another owner who doesn't understand the vast difference between a snaking and non-snaking draft. If you don't understand the difference between pick 37/49/61/etc versus pick 48/60/72etc, you my friend do not understand fantasy football.
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