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What I learned tonight

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What I learned tonight

Postby Free Bagel » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:00 pm

So, in watching the Saints/Falcons game tonight I came to a few conclusions and figured I'd share since they'll bring up some discussion.

I thought Deuce McAllister was back? Everyone has seen his last few statlines and assumed the knee is holding up great, but even with another successful statline tonight I certainly didn't see the old Deuce. His statline consisted of running through gaping holes, several times opened up by Reggie Bush decoys (anyone else see that LB fly to Bush on the fake reverse letting Deuce walk for 20 yards before anyone got close?) and going down as soon as a defender got close. Anyone got Deuce's YAC numbers from tonight? Was it greater than zero? He would lower his shoulder and push off with his knee which lead him straight to the ground. At this point in time the Saints O-line is supremely underrated...the push they were getting tonight on every run play was ridiculous.

I am a better pure passer than Michael Vick. There, I said it. My resume includes impressive feats such as a successful career in intramural football and all of its glory. Vick can't throw an 8 yard hitch on target. He can't get a seam route within 15 yards of the receiver. He can't even beging to read downfield coverage as the Saints had hardly anyone downfield all night and the best Vick could come up with was a couple jump balls that went 40 yards into the air. Vick's value as an NFL QB comes from his running ability, and his persistence in proving that he is a capable passer is costing his team. Early on in this game there were several open running lanes but Vick chose to stand in the pocket and skip a ball at his WR's feet instead. He didn't start running until the game was over. Vick will never be great until he realizes that he's a RB playing QB, and tries to stop proving that he can throw the ball like Brett Favre in his prime.

The Falcons' WRs are the worst in the league. It's not all on Vick, as he certainly doesn't have much to work with. I saw at least 9 or 10 balls hit Falcons' players in their hands tonight and fall to the turf, and there were what, 10 completions to go with it? Again, even in something as pitiful in comparison to the NFL as intramural football, if my WRs let balls like that hit the turf they wouldn't even make the intramural roster, much less the NFL. The fact that guys with that much natural athletic ability and the promise that they can play football for millions of dollars and they still can't put forth the effort to learn how to catch the football is pitiful. I can't believe those guys are getting paid for what they do.

The Falcons' playcalling was pathetic. Not sure who was calling the plays but it was dreadful. We've got a team that's lighting the game up on the ground and they come out throwing gung-ho the whole way. 1st and goal on the 1 with the league's best rushing attack? Hey, let's pass! Brilliant play-call, and brilliant job by Vick to hold onto the ball and take a sack way back at the 8. How did this team win two games?

The Saints are for real. Very, very impressive. If Brees can stay away from the turnovers like he did today they can make some noise.
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Postby matmat » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:08 pm

but i bet Vick's a better dancer than you.
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Re: What I learned tonight

Postby wrveres » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:44 pm

Free Bagel wrote:I am a better pure passer than Michael Vick. There, I said it. My resume includes impressive feats such as a successful career in intramural football and all of its glory. Vick can't throw an 8 yard hitch on target. He can't get a seam route within 15 yards of the receiver. He can't even beging to read downfield coverage as the Saints had hardly anyone downfield all night and the best Vick could come up with was a couple jump balls that went 40 yards into the air. Vick's value as an NFL QB comes from his running ability, and his persistence in proving that he is a capable passer is costing his team. Early on in this game there were several open running lanes but Vick chose to stand in the pocket and skip a ball at his WR's feet instead. He didn't start running until the game was over. Vick will never be great until he realizes that he's a RB playing QB, and tries to stop proving that he can throw the ball like Brett Favre in his prime.


I couldn't help but notice, but he threw zero picks. And only one all year, against some pretty good defenses .. That is improvement, and for that I am happy
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Postby Wesley Walker » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:54 pm

I agree about the Falcons receivers. Lelie's has no ability to shake a defender while running a route. And Crumpler looked like he's got hands of glass.

But as far as Deuce goes, I think he'll continue to have some value. Maybe he didn't get in the same 'roid rage as the rest of the Saints players tonight (or whatever you call it to explain that "raw emotion," blah blah blah), but he's a tough guy who will play a distinct (thoguh somehwat diminished) role for the team all year. He's too good not to.

To say "he's back" is silly, though. With a guy like Bush, Deuce will not have the same value as he had without Bush.
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Re: What I learned tonight

Postby Kilroy » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:03 am

Free Bagel wrote:I thought Deuce McAllister was back? Everyone has seen his last few statlines and assumed the knee is holding up great, but even with another successful statline tonight I certainly didn't see the old Deuce. His statline consisted of running through gaping holes, several times opened up by Reggie Bush decoys (anyone else see that LB fly to Bush on the fake reverse letting Deuce walk for 20 yards before anyone got close?) and going down as soon as a defender got close. Anyone got Deuce's YAC numbers from tonight? Was it greater than zero? He would lower his shoulder and push off with his knee which lead him straight to the ground. At this point in time the Saints O-line is supremely underrated...the push they were getting tonight on every run play was ridiculous.


At this point after SA went down I'll take the decent statlines. I agree though, Deuce looks tentative. Hopefully with time he'll become more "agreeable" to contact. He better, I'm gonna need him.

The Saints looked good tonight, especially up front. (on both sides of the ball)
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Re: What I learned tonight

Postby Matthias » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:03 am

Free Bagel wrote:I am a better pure passer than Michael Vick. There, I said it. My resume includes impressive feats such as a successful career in intramural football and all of its glory. Vick can't throw an 8 yard hitch on target. He can't get a seam route within 15 yards of the receiver. He can't even beging to read downfield coverage as the Saints had hardly anyone downfield all night and the best Vick could come up with was a couple jump balls that went 40 yards into the air. Vick's value as an NFL QB comes from his running ability, and his persistence in proving that he is a capable passer is costing his team. Early on in this game there were several open running lanes but Vick chose to stand in the pocket and skip a ball at his WR's feet instead. He didn't start running until the game was over. Vick will never be great until he realizes that he's a RB playing QB, and tries to stop proving that he can throw the ball like Brett Favre in his prime.


Anyone else notice there was an end-zone play from about 10 yards out or less where Vick passes to his receiver, and hits him in the shoulderblade (as it got swatted away by the DB)? The announcing crew said something like, Vick's receivers can't even get those passes.... as if Vick was actually aiming behind his receiver instead of actually leading him? Good grief.

But as far as Vick's running vs. passing went, I thought the reverse of you, FB. He was far too eager to scramble in third and longs. He got that 30-yard scamper near the end of the game because the defender missed the tackle, but way too often he would be pressured and instead of rolling out and looking for an open receiver past the first down marker, he'd just tuck and go. And then get tackled about halfway to the first down. He should've taken longer looks before he got happy feet.

And each passing year, the Chargers are looking smarter and smarter from that year's draft. Even if they didn't resign Drew, they still got some good years out of him.
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Postby mattb47 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:06 am

Wesley Walker wrote:I agree about the Falcons receivers. Lelie's has no ability to shake a defender while running a route. And Crumpler looked like he's got hands of glass.

But as far as Deuce goes, I think he'll continue to have some value. Maybe he didn't get in the same 'roid rage as the rest of the Saints players tonight (or whatever you call it to explain that "raw emotion," blah blah blah), but he's a tough guy who will play a distinct (thoguh somehwat diminished) role for the team all year. He's too good not to.

To say "he's back" is silly, though. With a guy like Bush, Deuce will not have the same value as he had without Bush.


Saying he's back doesn't mean that he'll produce like he once did, it has to do with how good he looks out there in comparison to how good he was pre-injury. And I would agree, Deuce is most certainly not back, but I didn't expect him to really be back this year like he was before, it will take some time before some of that comes back.

I was also impressed with New Orleans tonight, I think that they are definitely going to make some noise this year, that offense is looking solid and Brees is playing well. Gotta give them credit even though Atlanta played terribly.
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Postby kevster1 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:28 am

I agree with much of what you have to say, especially about Vick. "Does anyone realy think this guy could lead any team to the Superbowl". I realy dont think that his receivers are great, but they are not that bad. I have had Lelie in the past, and I have never seen a reciever catch so many long balls,b ut be unable to find the End Zone. It seems that he anticipates being hit or tackled, and falls down.
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Re: What I learned tonight

Postby maddog60 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:54 am

Matthias wrote:Anyone else notice there was an end-zone play from about 10 yards out or less where Vick passes to his receiver, and hits him in the shoulderblade (as it got swatted away by the DB)? The announcing crew said something like, Vick's receivers can't even get those passes.... as if Vick was actually aiming behind his receiver instead of actually leading him? Good grief.

But as far as Vick's running vs. passing went, I thought the reverse of you, FB. He was far too eager to scramble in third and longs. He got that 30-yard scamper near the end of the game because the defender missed the tackle, but way too often he would be pressured and instead of rolling out and looking for an open receiver past the first down marker, he'd just tuck and go. And then get tackled about halfway to the first down. He should've taken longer looks before he got happy feet.

And each passing year, the Chargers are looking smarter and smarter from that year's draft. Even if they didn't resign Drew, they still got some good years out of him.


With 31 passing attempts and only 6 rushes, I'm pressed to understand how you thought he was running too much? Especially for Vick. However I totally agree that LT + Brees + more for Vick was one of the greatest draft deals in recent history.
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Postby 505ponies » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:37 am

The Saints put everyone in single coverage and brought the house in every run lane. Vick could not take advantage of the coverage. He looked really bad.
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