Love-tapping the passer - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Love-tapping the passer

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby GreatestShowOnEarth » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:49 pm

Im tired of all the flags for "roughing" the passer as well. I havent seen much roughing going on. Im all for protecting the players i just dont think we can let it become what its become. Those 15 yard penalties can change a game.
Image
GreatestShowOnEarth
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Cafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 6525
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: South Stadium

Re: Love-tapping the passer

Postby Free Bagel » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:24 pm

jruiss01 wrote:What happened to the sack? How come everytime a QB gets hit they call roughing the passer. It's like Enron/Worldcom. As soon as someone got hurt the government jumped to do something and made all these crazy rules. Same goes for Palmer/Simms. As soon as they got hurt the league cracked down on this. How are you supposed to tell a 250 lb. linebacker running at full speed toward the QB to stop as soon as you get to him. They teach you to play till the whistle is blown. Plus DT, LB, and anyone else who is a prevalent blitzer are trained to steamroll the QB any chance they get. It's just not fair for defenses. I would like to see stats on if sack production has been down this year as opposed to years past. I was watching the Jet game and saw horrible roughing the passer calls made.

I vote the leaue changes the name of the call to love-tapping the passer because that's what is happening in most cases. Palmer and Simms got bad breaks you know?


That's my gripe.


Haha, I could not possibly agree more with you, good post.

I saw one of the calls you saw in the Jets/Jags game, the call was "Roughing the passer, landing with the full weight of your body on the QB" when Vilma tackled Leftwich. Because obviously you don't need to use the full weight of your body to bring down teh 250lb. Leftwich :rolleyes:
Image
Free Bagel
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterCafe Musketeer
Posts: 8495
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Titletown, FL

Postby dgan » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:43 pm

Yeah, in situations like this, they have to do what they don't like to do: they have to give the officials the ability to subjectively assess the situation.

If there is believed intent to rough the passer, then you throw the flag. If there isn't, then you don't.

What gets me with this and with the "defenseless receiver" rule, is that they assume the defender knows where the ball is at all times. Anyone who has played football can tell you that is absolutely not the case. Your job is to get to the QB, and just because he starts his throwing motion doesn't mean he's actually going to throw the ball. You don't stop until you see the ball leave his hand. Refs throw flags as if the lineman should have known the QB was going to throw the ball. But if the defender pulls up, and the QB pump fakes, the defender will find himself benched for letting up on the play.

Same thing with the defenseless receiver. As long as the receiver is attempting to catch the ball, it is the defenders responsibility to hit him. He's not supposed to decide whether or not the receiver is actually going to catch it. If the receiver can't catch it, why is he jumping in the air? Obviously if the receiver assumes he could catch it, the defender must assume he could catch it...therefore, hit him. The only time agree with that rule is when the ball clearly sails over the receivers head, he makes no effort to catch it, and the safety pummels him anyway. Other than that, it is a stupid rule.
Image
dgan
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 2941
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: The frozen tundra of Lambeau Field

Postby Kensat30 » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:30 am

They gotta come up with something to protect the QBs. They gotta be one of the few positions out there that isn't heavily juiced up on HGH and benching 600 pounds and running a 4.5 forty.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Postby LS2throwed » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:50 am

any other position, when the hit comes your most likely moving very fast, and more then likely you brace yourself for contact, or put yourself in a better position....


at qb, thats the only position that renders itself defenseless, your standing stationary while some 300 lb lineman that runs a 4.4 is full speed at your backside and you havent even saw them yet, guess what getting hit in the back feels like?


they deserve to be protected, if they werent it would be alot more concussions in the game, and starting franchise qb's all over the place would have shortened careers...you cant expect a qb to take punishment all game long from defenders they cannot even brace themselves for...


and the games changed since the 60's, linemen were not this big, strong, or fast....id you played qb for a couple of plays you would be agreeing with how the game's played...anyone that says they qb rules are too strict arent looking at the other side of the picture, im sure defenders would love to hit a qb wherever they wanted, but do you know what kind of punishment they would take from helmet to helmet contact all game at full speed?

other then that they stopped the rule where you fall down at their ankles, ask carson palmer how that can turn out....these are rules that should be in place, i love the nfl but i wouldnt want to see starting qb's getting killed and knocked out of the season all the time
LS2throwed
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe Musketeer
Posts: 5373
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Arlington, Texas

Postby dgan » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:50 am

I don't think anyone is saying there shouldn't be ANY rules. We're just saying it is becoming ridiculous. Remember these 300 lb guys are getting pushed around by 300 lb guys and you are not always in control of where and how you hit a QB.

It is at the point you cannot try to hit the QBs arm when he's throwing, because if you tap him in the head in the process, they throw the flag. That's why I say they have to subjectively judge the intent -- was he going for the ball or going for the head.

If you are going to protect the QB, fine. But you can't make it in black and white rules like they have now. At some point, common sense has to let the defenders do what THEY are paid to do. Everyone's all concerned about QBs, but they generally make a ton more money and don't get hurt any more often than defensive lineman. Just ask Jevon Kearse...
Image
dgan
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 2941
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: The frozen tundra of Lambeau Field

Postby Heimholder » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:52 am

dgan wrote:Yeah, in situations like this, they have to do what they don't like to do: they have to give the officials the ability to subjectively assess the situation.

If there is believed intent to rough the passer, then you throw the flag. If there isn't, then you don't.

What gets me with this and with the "defenseless receiver" rule, is that they assume the defender knows where the ball is at all times. Anyone who has played football can tell you that is absolutely not the case. Your job is to get to the QB, and just because he starts his throwing motion doesn't mean he's actually going to throw the ball. You don't stop until you see the ball leave his hand. Refs throw flags as if the lineman should have known the QB was going to throw the ball. But if the defender pulls up, and the QB pump fakes, the defender will find himself benched for letting up on the play.

Same thing with the defenseless receiver. As long as the receiver is attempting to catch the ball, it is the defenders responsibility to hit him. He's not supposed to decide whether or not the receiver is actually going to catch it. If the receiver can't catch it, why is he jumping in the air? Obviously if the receiver assumes he could catch it, the defender must assume he could catch it...therefore, hit him. The only time agree with that rule is when the ball clearly sails over the receivers head, he makes no effort to catch it, and the safety pummels him anyway. Other than that, it is a stupid rule.


I lump this in with the "late hit out of bounds" call that I also see overused. I don't remember what game it was earlier this season, but the RB was heading toward the sideline and got hit hard right as he was stepping out. How is the defender supposed to know he's not going to plant and cut back in? I once saw Barry Sanders start jogging when he got near the sideline like he was going out, then suddenly cut back in. The defender had already slowed up to avoid a penalty, then got just trashed for another 10 yards or whatever.

IMO it makes the game less fun to watch when the players are babied like this. But I guess the average NFL customer likes scoring, not hitting. :-t :-P
Image
Heimholder
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 428
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Kalamazoo

Postby jruiss01 » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:53 am

hskpwr13

I can't agree with you more. No one said the QB has to be the most important position on the field. In my eyes, for most teams it's the RB. The RB has no rules protecting him and he gets pounded every game. Yeah he can brace for impact and all that. But when you run for 5 yards, then get tackled by an LB or DT and then get piled on from everyone else for 5-10 or even 15 times a game, that is something else. The average career life of a RB is around 4 years. I wonder what it is for QB hmm?

It bothers me. Football is a contact sport. At one point football was played with no pads and dumb water polo cap. Heck, rugby players wear absolutely no protection. Same with Aussie rules football. If anyone of you has ever seen it you know what I'm talking about. Especially with Aussie Rules. No pads and people get blind sided in the air no less. It is a crazy game.

I hate to see games decided with subjective calls. PI and now roughing the passer have turned into game changing calls. When you put a power like that into someone's hands eventually they will make the wrong decision through abuse or mistake.
Image

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea". - Eric Cantona
jruiss01
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1000
Joined: 29 May 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Long Island

Postby moochman » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:34 am

jruiss01 wrote:hskpwr13

I can't agree with you more. No one said the QB has to be the most important position on the field. In my eyes, for most teams it's the RB. The RB has no rules protecting him and he gets pounded every game. Yeah he can brace for impact and all that. But when you run for 5 yards, then get tackled by an LB or DT and then get piled on from everyone else for 5-10 or even 15 times a game, that is something else. The average career life of a RB is around 4 years. I wonder what it is for QB hmm?

It bothers me. Football is a contact sport. At one point football was played with no pads and dumb water polo cap. Heck, rugby players wear absolutely no protection. Same with Aussie rules football. If anyone of you has ever seen it you know what I'm talking about. Especially with Aussie Rules. No pads and people get blind sided in the air no less. It is a crazy game.

I hate to see games decided with subjective calls. PI and now roughing the passer have turned into game changing calls. When you put a power like that into someone's hands eventually they will make the wrong decision through abuse or mistake.


I couldn't disagree more. The QB is easily the most important position in football. He touches the ball every down and places himself at risk with each pass. The NFL has to protect these players because they know we'd rather watch Peyton Manning than Brock Berlin or whoever the back-up is.

I love hard hitting football more than air and some brands of beer, but I hate to see a season ruined by a QB injury. So I consider the pussification of the position to be a necessary evil.
Image


I think, therefore I am. I think fantasy, therefore I am unreal?
moochman
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterSurvival Of The Fittest WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 16300
(Past Year: 80)
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Living in the shame only a Lions fan knows

Re: Love-tapping the passer

Postby Redskins Win » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:38 am

Free Bagel wrote:
jruiss01 wrote:What happened to the sack? How come everytime a QB gets hit they call roughing the passer. It's like Enron/Worldcom. As soon as someone got hurt the government jumped to do something and made all these crazy rules. Same goes for Palmer/Simms. As soon as they got hurt the league cracked down on this. How are you supposed to tell a 250 lb. linebacker running at full speed toward the QB to stop as soon as you get to him. They teach you to play till the whistle is blown. Plus DT, LB, and anyone else who is a prevalent blitzer are trained to steamroll the QB any chance they get. It's just not fair for defenses. I would like to see stats on if sack production has been down this year as opposed to years past. I was watching the Jet game and saw horrible roughing the passer calls made.

I vote the leaue changes the name of the call to love-tapping the passer because that's what is happening in most cases. Palmer and Simms got bad breaks you know?


That's my gripe.


Haha, I could not possibly agree more with you, good post.

I saw one of the calls you saw in the Jets/Jags game, the call was "Roughing the passer, landing with the full weight of your body on the QB" when Vilma tackled Leftwich. Because obviously you don't need to use the full weight of your body to bring down teh 250lb. Leftwich :rolleyes:


yeah pretty soon it'll be 2 hand touch on the QB, and then 1 hand touch and then they'll have to wear flag. it's a pitty the game comes to this but it is big business and owners want to protect their investments.
Image[/quote]
[size=14][b]Letters from the procupine, they'll stick straight through you.
So read one anytime you think you've made mistakes.[/b][/size]
Redskins Win
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 8272
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

PreviousNext

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 19:01 hours
(and 43 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact